Most Valuable Weapons at the Squad/Squad+ Level

[Etype]

What goes on the patrol- the saga continues. I'm going back to A-Stan soon and figured I would incite a little brainstorming session to see what everyone else thinks. Obviously, I'm doing this from a SOF perspective, so I substitute things like the Carl G for the SMAW-D, etc. I'm also speaking under the assumption that there about 10-15 bodies available.

Here's my take, they are roughly ordered in precedence-

1. M240- Definitely your #1 killer. It's a bit heavy, but very accurate and very reliable. If you've got your titanium tripod with you, you're even more deadly. There's a reason squad based combat is centered around it.
2. M249- If we were talking about Iraq, I might make this #1. You give up a bit of range and dependability but you gain maneuverability, different firing positions, and 2x the ammo for the same weight.
3. Carl G- This is a great weapon to have if you can reserve at least a 3 man crew to carry it and its ammo. It's got incredible range (matches the 240), the HE rounds can be set to airburst and have similar effects to an 81mm, and the HEDP rounds match SMAW-Ds in effects. However, it's heavy and you have a lot less chances to get it right due the reduced amount of ammo carried.
4. 40mm- Whether it's a M203, M79, 320, etc. You can carry a lot of ammo for it and don't need to devote a crew to run it. The user can also employ it and his primary weapon at the same time. Downsides- the effects are questionable against personnel and structures.
5. Sniper Rifles- Decent range, although you are only matching he previously mentioned systems. They are hard to employ well, especially under a lot of stress, and don't have the morale degrading effects of explosions or fully automatic fire. But, if you can run it well, you can kill people.
6. Handheld 60mm- This is my least favorite. It's much harder to fire accurately than the Goose Gun, and the ammo is only slightly lighter.

 

[Kraut783]

IMHO...SAW... enjoyed the compactness and firepower it brings.

 

[surgicalcric]

If I can only take one of the above I would take the M240. However, if we are actually talking about a squad+ element of infantry guys I would take all the above on most dismounted patrols except maybe the Goose - due to portability.

I also I believe the SDM, with suppressor, is an important capability to have at the squad level and while he cant lay down the volume of fire a rifleman, AR, or MG is capable of he can suppress the enemy with second shot corrections out to about 600m fairly easy in situations where PID is difficult or the issue of CIVCAS is too great to way waste to everything with a MG. IMO, it should be a carbine variant (SR25/M110 or SPR) and should go to the guy who can use it, not the guy who thinks he can after a 10 minute class on the 12" drill.

 

[x SF med]

Can you ask to get a bipod mounted M-60.... range, knockdown and maneuverability... although barrel burn is a little higher...

Karl G would be my next pick for unmounted work... mounted, gotta love the Mk19 if you have a good gun driver, but you lose the airburst.

I'm a 7.62 fan btw... a little heavier but a more devastating round, unless you can get the old semi-boattail 5.56 rather than the 'devastator' that just punches through unarmored targets....

moo, ymmv

 

[Crusader74]

GPMG/M240 for me followed by the Carl G..Having experience with both, the firepower they bring to a platoon ....although I'm not to fond of their weight..lol

 

[0699]

The human mind...

 

[reed11b]

I wish I had a better idea of how effective a handheld 60mm was, since my time on the 60 was all done using baseplate and poles. Sniper rifle I see as being an asset well above Squad level (Battalion). I have also humped the 240 and 249, and while I like what they bring, I have always felt that there should be some decent direct fire HE at the Platoon level and the G is a good fit for that.
Reed
(I just realized I voted for the only weapon I have never used...)

 

[Polar Bear]

Where is the Pig? Do they not use them anymore?

 

[Brill]

Most valuable weapon is the attached SIGINTer.

 

[Crusader74]

Where is the Pig? Do they not use them anymore?

Shurup old man, the pig was eaten by the GPMG/M240

 

[Etype]

I wish I had a better idea of how effective a handheld 60mm was, since my time on the 60 was all done using baseplate and poles.

At the extent of charge 0 and charge 1's range (300 and 1,300m respectively), it's pretty accurate. That's because then the tube is lying close to a 45 degree angle towards the target. The closer the tube gets to vertical the harder it is to aim, so lateral misses are pretty much the norm. That and it's about a 30# trigger pull.

 

[Mac_NZ]

For me the M203/Mag-58 are on an even footing. The 58 is great for belt fed hate and kills more fuckers than cancer but the M203 wins out just due the versatility of it. Scat rounds for angry crowds, illum for ambushes if your short of NVE, smoke for marking targets and HEDP for that special touch. I know the round is shit for effect beyond 5m but a good man can put a round right into a man size target at 100m quite easily.

 

[reed11b]

At the extent of charge 0 and charge 1's range (300 and 1,300m respectively), it's pretty accurate. That's because then the tube is lying close to a 45 degree angle towards the target. The closer the tube gets to vertical the harder it is to aim, so lateral misses are pretty much the norm. That and it's about a 30# trigger pull.

Thanks. I have fired it a few times on trigger fire and always wanted to do it for real, but 98% of our training missions had us set up and dig a mortar pit and run poles, so I am pretty sure our line guys thought that was all we could do. This was in the mid 90's mind you.
Reed

 

[x SF med]

the 60mm fired without a pole set and baseplate is devastating out to about 300m with a good gunner... we had one guy on one of my teams that was a savant with it... and he sighted using the muzzle angle, not the sight... you should have seen his accuracy with a 203....

 

[Etype]

If they came up with a quadrant sight or something to make handheld more accurate, I'd be tempted to put the 60 at the top of the list.

 

[Polar Bear]

My guess is the 60 mm is like the 203. You really need a lot of trigger time with it to be accurate. Kentucky windage

 

[x SF med]

If they came up with a quadrant sight or something to make handheld more accurate, I'd be tempted to put the 60 at the top of the list.

I believe there is a quadrant sight available for it... it was an issue item in the VN war IIRC...

here's one for auction.... link

here's the 2007 mortar manual... link

 

[Etype]

They use that sight more to verify the elevation on the mortar sight since the bore sight device only works for adjusting the deflection. I was thinking more like the 203 quadrant sight that has a front post and rear notch so you can actually sight windage and elevation with it.

 

[x SF med]

They use that sight more to verify the elevation on the mortar sight since the bore sight device only works for adjusting the deflection. I was thinking more like the 203 quadrant sight that has a front post and rear notch so you can actually sight windage and elevation with it.

if you use the difference in lip angle on the open tube end, you can be really accurate out to 300m ... use a marker to set center on the outside gunner side and inside target side to sight it takes paractice, but it ends up like sighting a tennis ball cannon from close range.... I loved being an SF weapons guy....

 

[Etype]

I use a piece of luminescent tape down the center of the tube. I agree, it's pretty accurate out to 300m, but the Carl G is pretty accurate out to 1,000m.