National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[ThunderHorse]

Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts.

Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job

 

[medicchick]

@compforce

Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it.

Just wondering, what part of that post made you think I was hanging the kids deaths on police? Or had anything to do with the shooting in Kenosha?

Infant critically wounded in Bishop Ford Expy. shooting

I thought about the same cases/as conclusion. It's reasonable given the recent instances that had national attention.

 

[AWP]

Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts.

Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job

The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...

 

[Locksteady]

The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...

I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.

I would call this sad - especially in cities like Chicago.

Firstly, postal workers aren't a voting demographic anomaly across unions. The majority of unions have a consistent Democrat-voting majority on their rosters.

Secondly, 'defund the police' is a months-long recent national phenomenon that is ludicrous to frame as representing a pension-focused Democrat-voting government workforce that regularly transits into some of the previously worst crime-ridden neighborhoods in the nation.

A more honest or discerning appraisal might tentatively characterize this as a sign that traditional working-class Democrat voters in major American metropolises are responding to the fact that their leaders are taking cues from the people least positioned to risk the fallout from their 'high-minded' solutions to police brutality.

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

The Postal Police Officers Association (national level) is already in the process of suing the Postmaster General for this.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.

I would call this sad - especially in cities like Chicago.

Firstly, postal workers aren't a voting demographic anomaly across unions. The majority of unions have a consistent Democrat-voting majority on their rosters.

Secondly, 'defund the police' is a months-long recent national phenomenon that is ludicrous to frame as representing a pension-focused Democrat-voting government workforce that regularly transits into some of the previously worst crime-ridden neighborhoods in the nation.

A more honest or discerning appraisal might tentatively characterize this as a sign that traditional working-class Democrat voters in major American metropolises are responding to the fact that their leaders are taking cues from the people least positioned to risk the fallout from their 'high-minded' solutions to police brutality.

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

The Postal Police Officers Association (national level) is already in the process of suing the Postmaster General for this.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers. I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

 

[AWP]

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

As a former subcontractor for the USPS, 1997-2000, they did not patrol ANYWHERE. Those are postal inspectors who were classified as LEO's. Those are the guys and gals who investigate postal fraud. Their physical security was limited to the security of any postal facility. Would they maybe make runs with carriers to assess situations, go "outside the wire" so to speak? Maybe. 99.99% of their jobs though involved investigating crime. They had badges, weapons, arrest powers, etc.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers. I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

Bingo.

 

[Locksteady]

A clarifying correction before moving ahead: President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service.

The core argument is unaffected.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.

If you're trying to shift this from a 'do they patrol or not' question to a 'how effective is it' question, that is reasonable to ask in response to a different assertion. This issue is also exacerbated by POTUS' refusal of COVID-19-related emergency funding to the USPS.

Bottom line from the previous post stands: Dejoy's decision to remove -yet another- LEO entity from protecting its own federal workers only contributes to this problem.

I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

Honest question: Do you just reflexively use lazy suppositions to make all this up and hope something sticks?

That definitely won't work in this case.

It is announced as an intentional practice in Chicago to protect mail carriers on their routes.

That’s why the Postal Inspection Service is responding with an extra layer of security to help carriers stay safe and avoid becoming victims of street crime.

In the Chicago District, that means using Postal Police Officers on street patrols.
. . .
Letter carriers like the program. “The patrols make me feel a lot more comfortable while delivering mail,” said Letter Carrier Erik Coates while on his route in Englewood, IL.

Letter Carrier Michelle Carlisle also likes the program. “The patrols make me feel safe,” she said. “It shows the Postal Service cares for my safety because they’re out here checking on us.”

The practice is included in their lawsuit as something they increased from previously before.

Jurisdiction and Venue of the Lawsuit: Point 29:

The Postal Service increasingly deployed Postal Police Officers for mobile patrols away from postal facilities, to protect letter carriers and the mail in dangerous areas, to stop mail theft from carriers and from collection boxes, and to insure the safety of the mail at airports.

And their jurisdiction to do so is undisputed, as shown in HR 6407 RDS:

SEC. 1001. EMPLOYMENT OF POSTAL POLICE OFFICERS. Section 3061 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `(c)(1) The Postal Service may employ police officers for duty in connection with the protection of property owned or occupied by the Postal Service or under the charge and control of the Postal Service, and persons on that property, including duty in areas outside the property to the extent necessary to protect the property and persons on the property.

TL;DR it has legal precedence and was employed specifically to prevent situations like the cited mail worker shooting before Trump removed their LE authority in August.

Neither Postal Workers nor Postal Police Officers are celebrating this decision.

 

[JedisonsDad]

So in the wake of police violence, you think the solution isn’t to better fund actual police so they can properly do their job, but to instead better fund a small section of police, in a field that has its own term of being violent (going postal), so that they can do a job outside of their realm of original responsibility? Keeping in mind, that with how small this section of Postal Police are, the amount they might receive would be negligible considering they are operating for a business that constantly operates in the red financially.

 

[Devildoc]

So....all of a sudden the Postal Police, a group that makes up 0.0024% of USPS employees, is getting butthurt because leadership is crying poor-mouth blues and they cannot tac up and "patrol" outside the wire? They have a hard enough time protecting the USPS employees inside the facilities. No, no politics here...

 

[RackMaster]

It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.

Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned

 

[Devildoc]

It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.

Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned

Before I was married my good friend's fiance-then-wife was a grad student at UNC-CH. At a variety of parties, cook-outs, and get-togethers I met a bunch of her friends (I nailed a couple, too, but that's a different story for a different thread). Anywho, they were all--every single one of them--stereotypical left-leaning 'sorority Marxists'. They never saw the disconnect between playing with Daddy's money and advocating a Che Guevara culture and political scene.

 

[ThunderHorse]

A clarifying correction before moving ahead: President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service.

The core argument is unaffected.If you're trying to shift this from a 'do they patrol or not' question to a 'how effective is it' question, that is reasonable to ask in response to a different assertion. This issue is also exacerbated by POTUS' refusal of COVID-19-related emergency funding to the USPS.

Bottom line from the previous post stands: Dejoy's decision to remove -yet another- LEO entity from protecting its own federal workers only contributes to this problem.Honest question: Do you just reflexively use lazy suppositions to make all this up and hope something sticks?

That definitely won't work in this case.

It is announced as an intentional practice in Chicago to protect mail carriers on their routes.The practice is included in their lawsuit as something they increased from previously before.

Jurisdiction and Venue of the Lawsuit: Point 29:
And their jurisdiction to do so is undisputed, as shown in HR 6407 RDS:
TL;DR it has legal precedence and was employed specifically to prevent situations like the cited mail worker shooting before Trump removed their LE authority in August.

Neither Postal Workers nor Postal Police Officers are celebrating this decision.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "lazy position" but I could point the tens of posts you have without citation of evidence. I'm glad and thank you that you posted some in this response. However, my position remains the same, the USPIS has limited capacity to do any "patrolling" and that is most definitely not their mission. There are over 600,000 Postal Service employees, so for the USPIS to be somehow be effective at patrolling the street for mail carriers it would need to become pretty huge.

If you think that is a lazy position, fine. But I don't think we'll have an honest conversation about this subject.


______________________

It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.

Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned

I saw those Ernesto shirts at department stores and I had no idea who he was for awhile or why counter-culture folks wore them. And then in college I read the Brotherhood of War series by WEB Griffin. Sometimes reading historical fiction is awesome because then I spent a few weeks looking at the Cuban Civil War and the activities of Cuba and Ernesto himself during the Cold War. I wish I could get every one of those dickheads I knew that wore his shirt, and let's include Kaepernick in there, in a room where I could put on a slide show of what that scumbag did to people.

 

[Locksteady]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "lazy position" but I could point the tens of posts you have without citation of evidence.

Well, speaking of lazy, perhaps in the context of reading .. I said supposition, like an assumption with the 'lazy' caveat being that you routinely don't seem to check if there's any credence to some of the claims you throw out in your responses to my posts.

There is no equating that with my occasional exclusion of available citations in initial posts that I consistently provide whenever they are requested.

I'm glad and thank you that you posted some in this response.

Definitely, and I value the fact that you hold those with whom you disagree accountable that way.

However, my position remains the same, the USPIS has limited capacity to do any "patrolling"

This is an adjustment from your previous statement, "nor do they have real capacity to such a thing", which I have shown is inaccurate and that they do have a 'real' capacity and authority to do it - or did.

Your new statement doesn't collide with any point from my previous post.

and that is most definitely not their mission.

However you choose to parse it, Postal Police Officers are authorized to and do patrol mail routes as a part of their mission to protect postal employees and mail.

There are over 600,000 Postal Service employees, so for the USPIS to be somehow be effective at patrolling the street for mail carriers it would need to become pretty huge.

As I mentioned earlier your question of effectiveness is a good one and I certainly agree with you here that more Postal Police Officers = more effectiveness in these duties.

But I don't think we'll have an honest conversation about this subject.

I'm less willing to facilitate a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Locksteady]

It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.

Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned

That was a scarily accurate profile of some of the students ready to 'punch a Nazi' I've encountered in the last decade on a college campus.

 

[Jaknight]

That was a scarily accurate profile of some of the students ready to 'punch a Nazi' I've encountered in the last decade on a college campus.

What would be an inaccurate profile? I’m genuinely curious?

 

[ThunderHorse]

This is an adjustment from your previous statement, "nor do they have real capacity to such a thing", which I have shown is inaccurate and that they do have a 'real' capacity and authority to do it - or did.

Not really an adjustment, I just used a different word. And yes, I know, as Captain Cushman once told my OBC class: "WORDS MEAN THINGS". But effectively. "NO REAL" and LIMITED in this use are effectively the same. With roughly 1,200 Postal Inspectors, their job is more like a detective rather than patrol cop to be honest.

But to put this into further context. The USPS operates 31,322 Retail Post Offices in this country. So, how do think the USPIS would do Patrol for Mail Carriers?

The US Marshall's Service has 3,571 deputy marshalls. The FBI roughly has 35,000 employees, and only 1/3 of those are special agents.

 

[Cookie_]

What would be an accurate profile? I’m genuinely curious?

Did you misunderstand that figure of speech he used?

"Scarily accurate" = so accurate as to be astonishing.

IE: That article described personalities that he has encountered enough to be cliche at this point

 

[Locksteady]

Not really an adjustment, I just used a different word. And yes, I know, as Captain Cushman once told my OBC class: "WORDS MEAN THINGS". But effectively. "NO REAL" and LIMITED in this use are effectively the same.

I'd stick with 'limited' in this case to avoid the ambiguity in 'real' the may have caused us to talk past each other.

With roughly 1,200 Postal Inspectors, their job is more like a detective rather than patrol cop to be honest.

Probably best to take it up with USPS If you have a contention with the language they use for their own PPO operations.

But to put this into further context. The USPS operates 31,322 Retail Post Offices in this country. So, how do think the USPIS would do Patrol for Mail Carriers?

The US Marshall's Service has 3,571 deputy marshalls. The FBI roughly has 35,000 employees, and only 1/3 of those are special agents.

I understand where you're coming from with your reasoning, and in wondering how it at all effectively functions.

I'm just saying whatever you're doubting is an actual thing with an actual union of Postal Police Officers willing to actually sue the federal government for taking it away from them.

 

[Jaknight]

Department Of Justice Identifies New York City, Portland And Seattle As Jurisdictions Permitting Violence And Destruction Of Property

 

[ThunderHorse]

Well ladies and gentlemen, shit's about to get real in Louisville. State of Emergency has been declared and LMPD is deploying fencing in downtown.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308128326670790657