National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[11Bull]

When you vote Democrat and suddenly your police department disappears
God bless Mr. Trump and real america.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

When you vote Democrat and suddenly your police department disappears
God bless Mr. Trump and real america.

Sad thing is the people fleeing those areas are gonna bring their idiocy along with them. Hence red areas becoming increasingly blue by outsiders. Never mind the conditioning local kids are receiving at school and on social media.

Unless we can figure out how to shift the culture... this idiocy and it's well intentioned morons will sink the rest of us.

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.

Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?

Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression police at all levels already *have* that training / basic psych, basic first aid plus critical care, deescalation & crowd control?

Personally can't see anything good coming out of that decision / line of thinking.

As in even the social worker in hot zones would need military equipment and training - training that takes way fucking more focus, years, and experience than the social work one.

Or - that sort of works... in countries like Albania - where even the social workers are, essentially, soldiers, and armed and well trained. Until it doesn't. All of you who worked Balkans probably get the mess I'm alluding to.

So... yah. No idea who brought that 'disband that PD' decision forward, but I think unflattering things about their IQ.

 

[Devildoc]

At the risk of putting good friends @Ooh-Rah and @Blizzard in perilous positions, fuck it, let them (de-fund and do away with MPD). Sit back and watch the ensuing anarchy. Cogent thought escapes me due to my blinding rage at these people, their fucking illogical and irrational arguments. I bet that fucking city council is also screaming for legislation for gun control. Sorry, bitches, you can't have it both ways.

@Ooh-Rah , @Blizzard , you are welcome in NC. We have our share of problems, but we don't have two things: 1) Minneapolis, and 2) snow.

@policemedic , once upon a time I was part of NC's first community paramedic program. A lot of that was social work, and we hated it. "Real" 911 calls were stacked as we tried to manage getting prescription refills taken care of. Since then it's been refined and it's now successful in a lot of places, but not my cup of tea.

 

[Blizzard]

I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.

I have no words. Who the fuck wants that job?! Do you want to see people get hurt, because that's how people get hurt.

 

[Jaknight]

Sad thing is the people fleeing those areas are gonna bring their idiocy along with them. Hence red areas becoming increasingly blue by outsiders. Never mind the conditioning local kids are receiving at school and on social media.

Unless we can figure out how to shift the culture... this idiocy and it's well intentioned morons will sink the rest of us.

The Right needs to embrace the liberal arts. The Left dominates the mainstream culture with Books,movies,games,etc. The right likes to make fun of such things it seems but those things are the ones who shape the minds of youth and others. The right must tell their stories and show their cause and it must be through the arts.

 

[Florida173]

I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy.

As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.

 

[Jaknight]

I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy.

As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.

Yes politics should stay out of art but unfortunately it’s not and often it’s a leftist message in that art

 

[ThunderHorse]

This is great, what an idiot group of city council members.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269951088964370432

 

[R.Caerbannog]

The Right needs to embrace the liberal arts. The Left dominates the mainstream culture with Books,movies,games,etc. The right likes to make fun of such things it seems but those things are the ones who shape the minds of youth and others. The right must tell their stories and show their cause and it must be through the arts.

Yes politics should stay out of art but unfortunately it’s not and often it’s a leftist message in that art

You're right dude. Sigh... when it comes to the culture wars the more conservative elements of our society are at a definite disadvantage. Sadly the information, entertainment, and education sectors, haven't been in our domain since the counter cultural revolution. Even when the more socially conservative elements to try to break into those fields they find little success.

On the other hand, harsh truths posted as pictograms have seen a resurgence at the hands of social conservatives. The comics of yesteryear have turned into memes and have become an effective medium for showing the failings and hypocrisy of liberal ideologies. Good examples of these memes range from 2A themes, hairdressers getting arrested / rioters roaming free, and even political corruption.

I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy.

As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.

You're also right. More in the way that propaganda in art is not an expression of good faith. Even though the deification and art that surrounds Floyd's death is ultimately a sham, it's been used masterfully to create an 'us vs them' narrative. No one in their right mind would call Floyd's deification art, but somehow the fate of a criminal has caused cities to burn and people to rally behind him as a saint.

For being false art that stuff is pretty powerful. Scares me when I think about it.

 

[Raptor]

Yes politics should stay out of art

I disagree, not every piece of art needs to be political and a lot of times it is forced, but while I obviously can't speak for everyone, some of my favorite movies, games and songs/bands have had some underlying political elements and been enhanced by it (Star Wars, Fallout and System of a Down are some examples).

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Local police are putting Minneapolis on warning...

With threat of Minneapolis police being disbanded, Anoka County sheriff says 'many agencies' don't want to go back to the city and restore order | Bring Me The News

 

[Kaldak]

You want the police abolished, show them what happens? Is that the tactic here?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Manufacturer that burned as Minneapolis protests turned violent plans to relocate from city

I think there's a song for this:

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Figured this fits in this thread or the all politics thread. It's about the weather underground and their goals for the US. These are the ideological founders behind movements like ANTIFA and the BLM.

 

[LimaPanther]

I try and stay out of politics, that is why I am an Independent, but have you noticed that ever city that had riots were Democrats and have been Demo for centuries. They are also the same ones that want to disband the police. Must be something there that their citizens are not paying attention to.

 

[SaintKP]

It's more complex than just a base level of whether its a red or blue city. You have underfunded and under supported Police Departments in a lot of these cities, often fighting an up hill battle with the governing bodies of said cities, naturally this leads to a lower quality of prospects because for one no one wants to work a job where their bosses hate them. Not to mention they can't receive the proper training to deal with things whether it be a high intensity situation and how to deescalate, or something as simple as decompressing and working through personal issues after a rough patrol. This leads to the a LEO who shouldn't be in a split second decision situation where someones life is at stake, nor can they effectively know when to pump the brakes and realize that maybe they passed excessive force about a minute ago and you're cruising headfirst into police brutality.

Now onto the constituents of a lot of these cities, a vast majority are low income, and a majority of which happen to be minorities. A lot of these people are coming into a system where the likelihood of them 'getting out' is so damn slim that most will turn to illegal activities once they come of age because working fast food sure as hell doesn't pay the bills. Now because of how our prison and justice system are setup, it's not made for reform, it's made for incarceration and to hobble you for the rest of your life. So a lot of these guys by the age of 20 have most likely been in and out of the system. Either on diversion, straight up juvie, or worst case scenario prison/jail. What options do they have coming out, realistically, aside from crime do they have? Fast food won't hire if you have a felony, construction and factory work? That's not a guarantee and most won't be able to get into it unless they have an inside guy.

While there are community programs that specifically take in ex convicts and people with criminal history that are looking for work and they do an amazing job with helping those people get back on their feet. But to put it simply, there isn't enough of those organizations to really make an impact.

So you have a judicial system whose aim is to arrest as many people as possible to fill out prisons, but not reform any of them. So they more often than not go back to crime. Which leads LE to specifically target those neighborhoods they deem 'High Risk' and the cycle continues. Leading to mistrust and resentment from the populace, as well as the police treating certain groups much more aggressively than others because of the past criminal history of said populace.

Let this cycle continue for 100+ years and you eventually get what we saw in Minneapolis.

There are a bunch of problems that lead to what happened, but two of the largest I'd say is Police funding and training as well as judicial reform. While there's progress being made, no one wants to really have that tough conversation and sit down at the table to hash everything out. How long until the next 'big one'? 1 year?

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

De-fund, disband, and sit back in disbelief.

 

[Florida173]

“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.”

― Milton Friedman

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This is becoming a National conversation and should probably have it’s own thread.

The George Floyd thread will continue for months with discussion of court proceedings and eventual verdict.

I’ll move “cop” related posts throughout the morning.