National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[Cookie_]

How is that when most of the ANTIFA movement is white?

I used the phrase "white hate groups" because that is usually all encompassing for both White Nationalist groups and White Supremacy groups (slight distinctions between both).

There was already a white supremist group declared the same.

U.S. designates Russian white supremacist group as terrorist organization

And the list is probably here some where.

Terrorist Designations and State Sponsors of Terrorism - United States Department of State

I'm referring specifically to domestic ones. We have a whole smorgasbord of ideologies designated as foreign terror organizations.

 

[racing_kitty]

So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?

If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.

I say this because, even though I'm not a Trump guy, if he doesn't make this seem apolitical it will blow up in his face.
Designating ANTIFA alone is going to open the floodgates of prime "whataboutism" and further reinforce the "Trump supports white hate groups" narrative.

IIRC, ALF and ELF already are listed as domestic terrorist orgs, and have been for a hot damn minute. Try again...

 

[Florida173]

So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?

If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.

I say this because, even though I'm not a Trump guy, if he doesn't make this seem apolitical it will blow up in his face.
Designating ANTIFA alone is going to open the floodgates of prime "whataboutism" and further reinforce the "Trump supports white hate groups" narrative.

You are applying your political ideology framework to this. This is not usually helpful and a huge oversimplification. Once you start applying left/right, democrat/republican, it starts to get easy to demonize one side, because that's the enemy, and not objectively look at your own. If you don't believe the Aryan Nation, ALF/ELF, and the KKK don't get their fair share of federal scrutiny; maybe there is an argument to be made there. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of active investigations to anything they do that is beyond an ideological view. People can still belong to groups with very unpopular opinions, yet never act upon them.

But who knows.. Viva la raza!

 

[Cookie_]

IIRC, ALF and ELF already are listed as domestic terrorist orgs, and have been for a hot damn minute. Try again...

That's what I'm asking though; is there actually an official designated list of domestic terrorist organizations?
Because all those groups would commonly be considered terrorist organizations, but I don't know if it's "officially" been done before. I just haven't been able to find it.

@Florida173 other than my comment about how I feel this could backfire, I'm trying to look at this apolitically. What I'm getting at is (as best I can find) it has been policy to treat these groups how your last sentence was. Individuals get charged, not groups.

People can still belong to groups with very unpopular opinions, yet never act upon them

I'm not a fan of ANTIFA/Blac-bloc/other violent leftist groups, and I understand fully how this designation could apply to them.

But as I've been saying repeatedly, I'm very cautious about allowing something to happen one group because we agree with it, because it always seems to backfire on us as a population.

ETA: Seems like DHS keeps a "domestic watchlist", but that's really all I'm finding so far.

 

[Salt USMC]

I'm referring specifically to domestic ones. We have a whole smorgasbord of ideologies designated as foreign terror organizations.

Legally-speaking, there is no “domestic terrorism” designation. I don’t really know what designating Antifa a terrorist org does, other than throw a bone to the base.

This article talks about possible avenues for enacting that kind of legislation:A Road Map for Congress to Address Domestic Terrorism

 

[BloodStripe]

This shit right here is fucking pathetic.

https://www.facebook.com/WWIIMemorialFriends/photos/a.466699133354637/3393264074031447

 

[Florida173]

Legally-speaking, there is no “domestic terrorism” designation. I don’t really know what designating Antifa a terrorist org does, other than throw a bone to the base.

This article talks about possible avenues for enacting that kind of legislation:A Road Map for Congress to Address Domestic Terrorism

Does this list have to be public? Couldn't i just play a shell game with names every time my group gets named?

 

[Bypass]

This shit right here is fucking pathetic.

https://www.facebook.com/WWIIMemorialFriends/photos/a.466699133354637/3393264074031447

This shit is getting ridiculous.

 

[Bypass]

On a side note do you guys remember when returning veterans were labeled possible domestic terrorists?

 

[DA SWO]

Can you show me where you’re getting that info from. Like the legalities of the matter? I’m interested.

Chapter 12, section 12 of the MN laws is a good place to start.

 

[J.]

Chapter 12, section 12 of the MN laws is a good place to start.

Thanks, I’ll read it now.

While I do, let me ask you how you can justify what occurred in that video as proportional force? Isn’t disproportionate force exactly how this all started? I’m interested to see where you’re coming from on this as your initial response to the video seems pretty apathetic to fellow Americans being assaulted unjustly by law enforcement.

 

[J.]

Here’s the info I have been looking for if anyone is interested. It seems they’re threatening misdemeanor and arrest to breaking the curfew. Fair enough.

Still haven’t gotten a solid explanation as to how assaulting the citizens on their porch is justified. Further up on this MN FAQ page it states law enforcement are supposed to inquire on why you are breaking these rules.

Me having met Americans before, I can more than assume most don’t know this exact rule. A police officer telling me to go inside then shooting at me with a less lethal doesn’t explain anything. At my home, on my property, telling me what to do smells grossly unconstitutional.

https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx

Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.?


Yes. You can be on your porch, yard, patio, etc., but if a law enforcement officer or other public safety official asks you to go inside, or take any other action, you must follow the instruction.

 

[Florida173]

Thanks, I’ll read it now.

While I do, let me ask you how you can justify what occurred in that video as proportional force? Isn’t disproportionate force exactly how this all started? I’m interested to see where you’re coming from on this as your initial response to the video seems pretty apathetic to fellow Americans being assaulted unjustly by law enforcement.

What would have been your proportional force choice? City wide order didn't do it, multiple verbal warnings from the street didn't do it, and then a paintball round was fired. Should they have been arrested instead?

 

[J.]

What would have been your proportional force choice? City wide order didn't do it, multiple verbal warnings from the street didn't do it, and then a paintball round was fired. Should they have been arrested instead?

Seeing how there’s approx 50 officers on the street what would be the harm in making non-threatening contact with the residents and explain the rule. If they fail to comply then sure, threaten arrest, arrest, I don’t care. Saying go inside a bunch then shooting less lethal is not proportional to people recording in mostly awe and not protest.

 

[Florida173]

Seeing how there’s approx 50 officers on the street what would be the harm in making non-threatening contact with the residents and explain the rule. If they fail to comply then sure, threaten arrest, arrest, I don’t care. Saying go inside a bunch then shooting less lethal is not proportional to people recording in mostly awe and not protest.

I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.

 

[J.]

I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.

I agree that the sight alone should spell out loud “Go away” but this is America we are talking about. Some handholding and explaining might prevent acts like this.

I’m not demonizing the police, I agree they’re patience right now is thin and their emotions are running high, but putting on a badge to me, is the same as when I took an oath to protect Americans. My behavior will be above reproach. I think acts like them only hurt the image they are trying to create.

 

[BloodStripe]

I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.

You put more boots to throats and it will only add fuel to the fire.

 

[Polar Bear]

 

[Polar Bear]

Here’s what you didn’t see. In Louisville during the protest last night, one officer got separated from the others and was threatened by the crowd. A group of black people circled and protected him.

 

[Cookie_]

You put more boots to throats and it will only add fuel to the fire.

I've always felt that the group/person with the power is the one who needs to first attempt to de-escelate the situation. I think that's why you can look at places like Flint and see they came out (relatively) unscathed, due to the actions of people like their County Sheriff

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267107339833925634