The city doesn't need them therefore they don't want to pay for their lodging anymore. Where's the issue with that?
National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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The city doesn't need them therefore they don't want to pay for their lodging anymore. Where's the issue with that?
Huge strawman here but I’ll play your game, because I’m off work today. While Mattis used this as an example, he cities the presidents prior behavior and not just the current situation
Sedition and treason are still laws. Punishable by felonious imprisonment and up to death. So when this administration decides to merk some looters here post-arrest using sedition and treason, we’re cool here? We gonna hang some traitors for treason to make a point to the rest of the populace that protesting- I mean, rioting and looting- won’t be tolerated.
I don’t know how Mattis feels about weaponizong the DoJ. I also don’t know why that matters. I will say, I know exactly how Mattis feels about the president’s 3 years running up to this mess. Remember- he’s not saying the riots are are overstep of the constitution, he said quite clearly that the presidents divisive nature and entire presidency has led to this.
Mattis worked for the president; spent his life in service to a country he loved; quit the admin when he no longer could tolerate the admin’s actions.
You wanna have him prosecuted for his work on Theranos? Fine. I’m sure some internet lawyers I know will lay out an ironclad case- doing yeoman’s work for actual lawyers who don’t seem terribly interested in actual prosecutions.
And- here’s the weird thing- both can be correct AND if you want to be a grown up, you can call fouls on your own team when they do bad things.
Florida173
SOF Support
I'll have to look into this more. I don't know why a city would be paying for the federal activation of troops. Where would that line of accounting in DTS be? Usually the state will set up a line of accounting and bill the federal side after the fact so that account bureaucracy doesn't get in the way of mobility.
Weren’t these NG soldiers? Or did I misread?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I guess people don't actually listen to the POTUS words much. Because what I'm reading in the media after today's Rose Garden speech are clear lies. I watched it.
The Insurrection Act of 1807 is necessary. Trump should have definitely used it, it should have been invoked last Thursday. I posted the timeline of what occurred in 1992 above. In a sense we're well past the period where deploying federal troops will actually aid a situation.
I also mentioned above the only time you actually saw armored vehicles on the "streets" in an attempt to anything against Americans was in 1993 during the Clinton Administration. The goalposts in this thread seem to have moved. Nothing Trump has done or said would indicate that there would be an armored division sent into a city to quell the violence.
So can we agree that the POTUS is trash, Mattis is trash, and every other dickhead using this moment to score points is also trash?
Now, back to what's really going on out there. I take you to Buffalo:
Entire BPD Emergency Response Team resigns in support of suspended officers
This obviously looks like cow shit. WTF?
The Insurrection Act of 1807 is necessary. Trump should have definitely used it, it should have been invoked last Thursday. I posted the timeline of what occurred in 1992 above. In a sense we're well past the period where deploying federal troops will actually aid a situation.
I also mentioned above the only time you actually saw armored vehicles on the "streets" in an attempt to anything against Americans was in 1993 during the Clinton Administration. The goalposts in this thread seem to have moved. Nothing Trump has done or said would indicate that there would be an armored division sent into a city to quell the violence.
So can we agree that the POTUS is trash, Mattis is trash, and every other dickhead using this moment to score points is also trash?
Now, back to what's really going on out there. I take you to Buffalo:
Entire BPD Emergency Response Team resigns in support of suspended officers
This obviously looks like cow shit. WTF?
Florida173
SOF Support
I'll assume you are asking sincerely.
I'm guessing my use of "federal activation of troops" is what you're hung up on. Active duty components don't get activated, they are already "active." Comes down to authorities and who's paying. States have sovereignty from each other and can't just send troops into another state without permission. No idea when it comes to DC. I believe the 3500 or so soldiers deployed were on request by the Pentagon, not a governor, so if they are federally activated, they would more likely be in a title 10 capacity and would therefore gain federal benefits. Although the title 10 vs 32 thing might be a little iffy here because you have federally activated title 32 missions in various states, like counter drug and stuff.
NG is correct.
Florida173
SOF Support
Yeah.. I believe the 82d guys had already been sent home. Think there was supposed to be some from 10th mountain too, but haven't looked into it.
Utah NG troops to be precise.
Yeah in that case- the state was ordering the city to foot the bill for the housing- city doesn’t feel like it? Doesn’t seem too crazy to me. Sounds like a state problem.
Florida173
SOF Support
Mayor is calling for all out of state guardsmen to leave her city. As far as I know that includes at least Ohio, South Carolina, and Utah. There might be some more though. Saw some pictures of guys that I'm assuming are coming from 19th SFG.
I go back to my question though on who owns the authority for the district? She doesn't even control the DC National Guard, the President does.
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I understand why you did that. Social media is weaponized in the name of America’s new religion and it’s hard to be on if you’re not willing to literally bend the knee to it.
But for me, FB is something useful and interesting from a business, educational, and social standpoint. It’s also one of the front lines of the cold civil war that’s raging right now, and I’m not going to be driven from it. Because that’s what people want: not a rational debate, not reasonable discussion and disagreement, but capitulation, subjugation, and submission.
You're a very rational and "centrist" person, and our country needs to hear those kinds of voices right now. I hope one day you'll reconsider.
Seems like a lot of the posts last night got lost to the void,
@R.Caerbannog We didn't cover that in school, just a cursory course over the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Stalin pushing everyone out. Nothing in depth, do you have recommendations on articles for the stuff you mentioned?
@Florida173 I'm glad they're looking at qualified immunity, it's a shame that no one is talking about it though. I will agree though that I'm worried that people are wanting to effectively remove the polices ability to do their job when it most likely needs proper oversight and training.
@ThunderHorse I stated before that I'm fully against the actual rioting and looting. But thats not what we're really seeing the majority of right now. Did any of those people I posted about deserve that for exercising their first amendment right? I'm for trying to find reconciliation but don't do it at the expense of my rights.
@R.Caerbannog We didn't cover that in school, just a cursory course over the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Stalin pushing everyone out. Nothing in depth, do you have recommendations on articles for the stuff you mentioned?
@Florida173 I'm glad they're looking at qualified immunity, it's a shame that no one is talking about it though. I will agree though that I'm worried that people are wanting to effectively remove the polices ability to do their job when it most likely needs proper oversight and training.
@ThunderHorse I stated before that I'm fully against the actual rioting and looting. But thats not what we're really seeing the majority of right now. Did any of those people I posted about deserve that for exercising their first amendment right? I'm for trying to find reconciliation but don't do it at the expense of my rights.
Florida173
SOF Support
I tried to find quickly if SCOTUS already had the question of qualified immunity on the docket, but only found that they had recently refused and now are looking into it. I believe we can probably find something that us citizens feel safe from that immunity, and the LEOs safe from a really litigious citizenry.
What else can be helped from a Federal level? The president has been working on prison reform and been getting a lot of praises from certain black leaders on his efforts. Why are people protesting in front of the White House over the alleged systemic racism that the POTUS didn't bring with him. If there was a voice of the people that could list out some demands and expectations at the Federal level, I would say, yeah.. let's all have that discussion and murderboard the shit out of it for pros/cons, but who's leading this from the BLM and greater movement?
Join the club. One thing is for sure, if you post any view on anything you’ll offend someone somewhere without a doubt.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I think many people do not seem to understand how active duty troops would be used. They would be used much like the National Guard are being used. They would back up law enforcement and as you've seen the majority of Guard elements have been attached to a Law Enforcement element. Federal troops don't have the authority to arrest people. I guess the rhetoric is all crap because we're in such a polarized world. As I posted earlier, the time for federal troops to be deployed has expired. That needed to happen over a week ago. The deployment of Federal Troops to Los Angeles in 1992 lasted a week. Parts of Los Angeles had the National Guard in place for almost a month.
I'm afraid you haven't read my posts that clearly because I've made several posts showing wtf about police brutality during these protests. No ones rights should be forfeited. However, if someone impedes my rights with either attempting to deprive me of my life or property and the police aren't there, and they aren't there in many communities right now, then the citizen will take their arms and protect themselves. That is the problem we currently face. But this is the third time I've mentioned this. Is that not a problem set? Do we want private militias guarding different neighborhoods? Or do we want to restore order? Because eventually we will have to restore order or we will have major conflicts in our cities beyond the conflicts some of them had.
In terms of protesting the WH I believe it's a combination of
A.) Who is actually in it right now and the extensive history of antagonistic comments made by him
B.) It's a symbol of power and 'the system'
The biggest problem and another thing I fear is that there is protesting but no clear and concise goal, yeah the overarching message is to get rid of police brutality, systemic racism, and fix 'the system'. Great, I'm all for reform because there are problems, but all of this is getting us no where because there is no "How", only the end state.
Every newbie that comes here is told the same thing, focus on the 25m and be honest and clear with yourself on what you want to achieve, it's rock solid advice because it's true. Right now, there is none of that going on, only the end state.
I apologize because I haven't read the past few pages since my initial post today. I'll come up with a proper response in a few.
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