And good luck finding a replacement.
National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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I don't like the whole idea of "this dude was killed by cops, let's see if he has a criminal history so we can blame his death on him" that has become super common.
Somebody can be a massive piece of shit AND treated like shit/killed by the police.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Unfortunately, all the cops in the US are judge by actions of one......this rarely happens in any other profession.......tens of thousands of calls are responded to every day across the US, with no issues and no one cares....
It doesn't matter what Floyd's past was....this was a fuck up and preventable.
It doesn't matter what Floyd's past was....this was a fuck up and preventable.
A lot of Fentanyl in his system. Complained he couldn't breath before being placed on ground. Was an APPROVED restraining technique. Who killed who?
You're also leaving out the few minutes where Floyd is clearly unresponsive yet is still being held to the ground. After stating that he wasn't able to breathe multiple times. Don't really see the point you're trying to make here at the end of the day Chauvin still technically killed Floyd, now whether it meets the charges set by the AG is an entirely different discussion.
A tragic chain of events all the way around that no one saw happening when they woke up. I wouldn't say there were any compleatly innocent parties.
If it is a political appointee, think of how "progressive" they will run the department.
My point was supposed to be Floyd was also responsible in a way. Had he not been on fentanyl he probably wouldn't have died according to everything I've heard and what little I have read. BUT I agree having a knee on his neck didn't help. Had it been a sober individual and not someone suffering from a fentanyl overdose like you or me then we probably wouldn't have died BUT we also wouldn't have freaked out and lost our shit when the officers tried to place us under arrest. I'm not completely defending or completely accusing anyone. I'm just saying it was a bad chain of events that could have been avoided if Floyd had stayed home that day where he could have died on his own in his own home of a fentanyl overdose.
And now Toronto, even with a rise in violent gang related crime. There was even 2 guy's arrested, after they threatened people on a beach with chainsaw's. I'd like to see a social worker deal with that. lol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-police-reform-1.5681916
Bloodied men detained at Toronto beach menaced people with chainsaws: eyewitness
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-police-reform-1.5681916
Bloodied men detained at Toronto beach menaced people with chainsaws: eyewitness
George Floyd ver 2.0 wasn't too different from George Floyd ver 1.0.
Passing a fake 20 was going to get him tossed back in jail.
People here may think a fake 20 is no big deal, but the Secret Service disagrees.
Passing a fake 20 was going to get him tossed back in jail.
People here may think a fake 20 is no big deal, but the Secret Service disagrees.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I just read his autopsy (yeah, I'm bored). No medical evidence that the neck thing caused death; in fact, there is no medical evidence that the cop's actions caused the death. There are a lot of different drugs on board. To be fair, a lot of notes about bruising/contusions/abrasions on his shoulders and torso; a few minor on his cheeks and nose.
Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.
For your viewing pleasure:
Autopsy 2020-3700 Floyd | Coronary Circulation | Tetrahydrocannabinol
Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.
For your viewing pleasure:
Autopsy 2020-3700 Floyd | Coronary Circulation | Tetrahydrocannabinol
Blizzard
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I don't know. I watched the full body can footage from both officers. I don't really see any significant issues with their actions. Just a tragic outcome.
The following point is moot but, keep in mind, Floyd's death was not by asphyxiation and that was never mentioned in the autopsy report. Death was due to "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." (Edit: @Devildoc posted a link to the autopsy report above, it was also posted earlier in this thread).
We'll never know the answer to this but given Floyd's complaints about breathing and his chest while the officers were still trying to get him into the squad, if Chauvin had restrained him some other way - across the shoulders, simply held his head down/immobilized his head or something - would Floyd have still died? I'm not sure it can be said with certainty that he wouldn't have.
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Blizzard
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You and I are on the same wavelength today. I just posted something very similar.
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This is one of those super tough situations. Floyd clearly was no angel, the guy had lots of reasons to not like him. Chauvin probably had a justified case for all of his actions until somewhere during the 8-minutes of kneeling. At some point, whether the guy (Floyd) can breathe/talk/move, Chauvin should have had enough sense to attempt to get him back in the car. I have a hard time believing he didn't feel a physical difference from Floyd from when he was alive to when he passed. I fully support our cops and the job they do, but all Americans deserve their day in court, and Floyd was not given his. We have cops to enforce laws and ask them to do heroic actions day in and day out, but we don't ask/want them to judge and implement punishments.
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All of that said, I don't think this was racially motivated. I also don't think it is a result of a racist system. I think we have a culture problem that creates resentment towards our brothers in blue and until that is fixed, we are always going to have hostile criminals who cops need to take actions against. When situations are continually escalated by aggressive citizens, these situations will continue to happen. A little respect for the law and those that serve it would go a long way in minimizing these incidents.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Totally agree, super tough. At the end of the day I don't care what Floyd's history is, just interested in the link between him, his death, and Chauvin's actions, and creating (or dispelling) a fatal sequence of events. I also agree about giving people (to include Chauvin) their day in court; however, I am afraid that people have already made up their minds.
Blizzard
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Concur. The officers had no idea who he was or anything about his history at any point during their interaction. So, it's all noise and irrelevant to the specific situation.
Gotcha, I was misunderstanding what you were saying. My bad.
What is a lot of fentanyl? A lot of fentanyl for you, for an opiate naive person, for a person in chronic pain, a cancer patient, an Afghan who has been smoking opium their entire adult life? All of those have different amounts that would be considered a lot...Further Floyd may have been prescribed his opiates for pain, I do not know. A serum level of 11ng seems high, but often postmortem serum levels are unreliably high due to redistribution.
“Blood or serum concentrations of fentanyl do not correlate with doses either antemortem or postmortem. Moreover, fentanyl con- centrations in postmortem peripheral blood samples can be con- siderably higher than concentrations of in vivo serum samples and therefore could not be compared. Due to the pharmacokin- etics of fentanyl and its high partitioning into peripheral tissues and adipose tissue, considerable postmortem redistribution can occur.”
https://watermark.silverchair.com/b...DjyMQCWIno34SerpHMqNG8hYGYvby_IyFF_v6PyEI1NCw
Just pointing out that the amount in the system is different from a therapeutic amount. People walk around, drive, and lead normal lives while taking opiates of all kinds of strengths.
Do you think he died of a fentanyl overdose? This has zero indications of that. He was up and moving around. I have treated a lot of overdose patients, and this doesn’t look like any of them I have ever seen. I didn’t see anything in the autopsy about needle marks, so he may have been using it in another way, but if it was an overdose he would never have needed to be restrained, as he would have been lethargic, to the point of being concerning.
Devildoc
Verified Military
@Dvr55119 , according to the autopsy, he also was positive for sickle cell trait, though I don't know if he had active disease. As you and I well know, those guys take enough narcotic to kill most people.
According to the report the man was a walking pharmacy for illicit substances, though being an habitual user, you know he had a very high tolerance.
According to the report the man was a walking pharmacy for illicit substances, though being an habitual user, you know he had a very high tolerance.
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