Locksteady
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I'll make more of an effort to do that.
Copy that.
National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
Devildoc
Verified Military
Without wading through links and articles, can someone tell me who fired the first shot?
I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed. If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense. Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night. It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.
If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back. Even so, you are accountable for every round.
I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed. If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense. Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night. It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.
If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back. Even so, you are accountable for every round.
Locksteady
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The police (in plain clothes) only began shooting after Walker (the boyfriend) fired a shot after they forcibly came through the front door.
Boyfriend shot first. Said he heard banging on the door yelled for them to identify themselves (which he said he never heard), so he fired a shot when they kicked down the door.
Quite honestly, I'd have reacted the same way in this situation if someone busted my door down at 0030.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Whether they did/didn't (announce), I agree: if I didn't hear it, and someone came into my house, they are getting lit up. I understand the necessity of no-knocks (intended or 'assumed') but the results can be awful.
Wait, the boyfriend fired first and the cops returned fire? How can anyone make a case this is a race-based anything? You shoot at me, I shoot at you, and everything about you is irrelevant. Race, sex, age...none of that matters.
How many cops were on this warrant? Just the three or were there more?
Most of that arguement came from the fact that the boyfriend was facing charges, and the belief that a white person would likely have been let off without the public outcry that eventually got charges against him dropped.
From what I saw her place was intended to be a "soft target"; no kids, pets, or suspected weapons.
My question is, if you expect almost no resistance, what purpose does barging in during the middle of the night do except make it more dangerous for everyone?
Devildoc
Verified Military
I have had this convo so often, especially with SWAT. I would ask, why not just take them down when they leave the house, walking to the car? I'd get a million answers, few were valid, most just supported kicking in the door. Although I was a card-carrying LE-certified member of the tac team (I had to be LE-cert, even as the medic) and was far back in the stack, I not too-fondly recall the days of the 'fatal funnel' in Iraq. I hated executing warrants and raids.
As far as "intended to be a 'soft target'", my questions revolve around intel and planning. I do not know what they did or did not do, and I hate to armchair QB, but in my limited knowledge of this event, there were a lot of holes in the Swiss cheese that aligned to allow this outcome.
Blizzard
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Not only this but keep in mind, the boyfriend actually landed a round when he fired firat. The wounded officer, who was hit in the femoral artery, returned fire as he retreated out the door. Other officers understandably returned fire as well.
The only officer I see as an issue in returning fire was Hankison. Firing blindly into the residence was not cool...and that's why he was fired.
As was stated numerous times, a shitty situation all around.
I am not a fan of no-knock warrents or O'dark thirty entries.
Jaknight
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I wonder if she had actually stayed in her room like the media had portrayed it instead of going out there with her bf would she have lived? Also Wasn’t that unwise for her to come out as well seeing as she had no gun and would be useless if they started shooting
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I believe it was four.
Blizzard
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Agreed.
There were simultaneous warrants being executed by other officers at a few other related locations.
757
Member
Exactly. Albeit without knowing all the details of the case, this situation kind of reminds me of the Waco incident (in Wako they could have grabbed the dude when he ran every morning at the same time/place). It's hard for me to imagine that breaking down the door, armed to the teeth, in the middle of the night, knowing that the party involved is dangerous, is the best solution to the problem.
To be fair, I am biased in the sense that I dislike no-knock warrants. If somebody breaks into my home, there is a VERY good chance somebody is going to catch a bullet (probably at least me since I haven't been to the range in a hot minute XD). Either way, gotta try and protect the family.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Both in the platoon and in the tactical team we joked that the guy with the least to lose needed to be the first through the door. It was a macabre sense of humor, but rooted in some truth. Again, intellectually I understand the points for no-knocks; in practice, however, they are often bad ju-ju...
Blizzard
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@Devildoc said something similar in an earlier post and I agree as well. The no-knock carries even a higher degree of risk; there really is zero room for error. You better be at the right house, etc. The fact is you bust down my door in the middle of the night, it's gonna get ugly, especially since I don't have any reason or expectation for the police or anyone else to legitimately do this. That's a problem.
Florida173
SOF Support
This is pretty good. A lot of misinformation out there
I spent a lot of time reading the leaked county jail phone conversations between the group being investigated and the report on the evidence that lead to the raid.
For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you either of you think selling crack is a legitimate way to make a living.
Go read up on the investigation and the phone conversations yourselves. She had $8k in cash from boyfriend crack dealer somewhere in the house or car. That's a lot of fucked up futures for a lot of small children who's parents are hopelessly addicted to crack... Turning her life around...race baiting...I'm not gonna hear it...
For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you either of you think selling crack is a legitimate way to make a living.
Go read up on the investigation and the phone conversations yourselves. She had $8k in cash from boyfriend crack dealer somewhere in the house or car. That's a lot of fucked up futures for a lot of small children who's parents are hopelessly addicted to crack... Turning her life around...race baiting...I'm not gonna hear it...
Bruh if you're saying I can just kick down your door in the middle of the night and you wont react to it, how about you just mail me some of your valuables right now and save me the trip?
Can I get a citation please?
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