Pakistan elite talk up imminent US invasion

[DA SWO]

Which ones of those alternative routes has a sea link?

None, and that's the problem.
You can however reduce what goes through the ports and reduce (Waki-stan sponsered) theft. Eventually getting to the point where you only make token shipments through their ports.

 

[JBS]

That's right. Fear of a distant enemy is a great internal unifier and political pacifier domestically.

Sir, maybe this means Pakistanis are going to have to take their shoes off at the airport. And no more water bottles.

 

[JBS]

For Pakistan to start cribbing about cross-border raids from Coalition forces is absolutely laughable.

I think the people of Mumbai would agree.

 

[AWP]

If I seriously thought we were going into PK, I would come out of the IRR, "Turn Blue" at Benning, and take a rifle platoon across the border. They are a greater threat to us, and the world, than Iran or NK.

 

[SpitfireV]

None, and that's the problem.
You can however reduce what goes through the ports and reduce (Waki-stan sponsered) theft. Eventually getting to the point where you only make token shipments through their ports.

You can't reduce what goes through the ports. That's why the problem is what it is.

 

[DA SWO]

You can't reduce what goes through the ports. That's why the problem is what it is.

Why not?
Air land stuff into a different stan and truck in.

 

[AWP]

Why not?
Air land stuff into a different stan and truck in.

The only hope you have of supporting that is to reduce your overall footprint, mil and civ, to an absurd number which will never happen. We're still on the hook for the Afghan mil's logistics.

 

[Chopstick]

I think we should send them Michael Yon for 24 hours. That should shut them up.

 

[DA SWO]

I think we should send them Michael Yon for 24 hours. That should shut them up.

Nah, send him for 6 months.

 

[Marauder06]

One of my classmates forwarded me the link to this article, a good read.

http://www.tnr.com/article/world/95928/united-states-pakistan-terrorism-afghanistan-haqqani?page=0,1

Why Pakistan and the United States Are on a Collision Course

, the Pakistani reluctance to go after the Haqqani network is a capacity problem. The Pakistan Army has already deployed 140,000 troops in the northwestern tribal belt, and 15,000 of these are based outside Miranshah, the capital of North Waziristan. But this is not enough: By some estimates, the Haqqani network comprises 12,000 trained fighters. Moreover, since the siege in 2007 of the Red Mosque in Islamabad, which had been taken over by radical clerics, the Pakistan Army has been wary of retaliatory attacks provoked by major operations against militant groups (56 suicide attacks followed the siege in 2007 alone). An operation against the Haqqani network would almost certainly lead to a wave of suicide bombings against civilian and security targets across Pakistan. The Pakistan Army cannot risk being held culpable by the public for taking an action that worsens the near-term national security situation, especially one taken at Washington’s behest.​

 

[The Hate Ape]

The first person to reach for a gun at the poker table is usually the one holding the least amount of chips. If we weren't so nice about shit I'd say Pakistan is a called bluff away from getting bitch slapped.

Oh hi China..

 

[QC]

Good article Mara, if, as the article suggests they wanted a stable govt. in Kabul, and one they can influence, they've failed due to Karzai not wanting to deal with Pakistan any more.

 

[JBS]

[snip] Pakistan[snip]getting bitch slapped.[snip]

Oh hi China..

There's the rub.

 

[SpitfireV]

Good article Mara, if, as the article suggests they wanted a stable govt. in Kabul, and one they can influence, they've failed due to Karzai not wanting to deal with Pakistan any more.

Which will probably in turn mean they'll put more towards HQN and/or the Taliban to compensate and to set them up for the civil war.

 

[QC]

Could be, I can't second guess this one.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

If we did go to war with Pakistan, what do you think it would look like? Would it be a SOF war backed up by air? Or a sort of Gulf War style air campaign? And would the aim of it be like Iraq and Afghanistan where we engage in nation building when the fighting is over?

 

[AWP]

If we did go to war with Pakistan, what do you think it would look like? Would it be a SOF war backed up by air? Or a sort of Gulf War style air campaign? And would the aim of it be like Iraq and Afghanistan where we engage in nation building when the fighting is over?

I'd think it would be more Iraq 2003 than Afghanistan 2001. I don't see our SOF guys being able to pull off what they did in Afghanistan due to the lack of friendly forces available, especially if INdia were involved or even the specter of Indian involvement. With that off the table you're looking at invading the country. Marines coming over the beach and maybe from the west, Army from the west, SOF hitting the nukes and their infrastructure, maybe taking out some leadership or key scientists, and air power killing everything. The mountainous terrain and locals would prevent a speedy conquest of PK. I'd envision the PK mil putting up a fight before going the Fedayeen route like Iraq did in 2003. At that point you have guerillas to contend with, irregulars, hit-and-run stuff.

How do you deal with that? Were I in charge I'd introduce India into the equation once the nukes were dealt with (eliminated or marginalized) and allow India to bear the burden in the east. I would NOT allow PK to remain as a soverign nation, proxy, district, city-state, or performing arts center. I would invade to destroy the country, eliminate it, Islamabad Delenda Est. If you're the Pakistani's do you fight America or India? The response may be one of geography, but emotionally they'd go with the devil they know (America) rather than a sworn enemy, especially if we announce that Afghanistan will own everything west of the Indus.
Nation building....We're already into the "No chance in hell of this happening, Free, no matter how right you may be." so let's continue. Treat it like Germany and Japan under the Marshall Plan and make our aid contingent upon security. Right now, I'd tell the Afghans to GFY: live in shit, starve, watch your children die, and see ya', wouldn't want to be ya'. Send the message to the entire planet that America will be your ally, but if you start killing Americans we go home. That is the policy I'd extend to the Newly Conquered Area Formely Known as Pakistan. When I was done I'd go before the UN and remind everyone what we shell out to the UN, to NATO, and to any other junior League of Nations wannabes out there and then I'd ask them, "Does anyone want Next? Does anyone want to put their quarters on my pool table?"

There would be howls of protest and righteous indignation, but I guarantee you that no one would take the bait. Wait a decade or two, beef up their military (China and Russia), but an immediate response? No.

We would take horrendous casualties if we invaded PK. SOF, Army and Marine infantry, and the AF would be reminded of the value of CASR....but we could do it.

We just never will. I think once we wrap up Afghanistan we're going to be gun shy about war, especially commiting troops. Drones and remote bombing are the way of the future because we are soft and risk adverse, not because they are better, but because they are more polticially acceptable.

 

[DA SWO]

I just hit their infrastructure, and take over the ports. Let them surrender or figure out how to feed them selves without any surviving roads/bridges/railroads, etc) Siege warfare (modified a bit).

 

[Deleted member 2517]

I'd think it would be more Iraq 2003 than Afghanistan 2001. I don't see our SOF guys being able to pull off what they did in Afghanistan due to the lack of friendly forces available, especially if INdia were involved or even the specter of Indian involvement. With that off the table you're looking at invading the country. Marines coming over the beach and maybe from the west, Army from the west, SOF hitting the nukes and their infrastructure, maybe taking out some leadership or key scientists, and air power killing everything. The mountainous terrain and locals would prevent a speedy conquest of PK. I'd envision the PK mil putting up a fight before going the Fedayeen route like Iraq did in 2003. At that point you have guerillas to contend with, irregulars, hit-and-run stuff.

How do you deal with that? Were I in charge I'd introduce India into the equation once the nukes were dealt with (eliminated or marginalized) and allow India to bear the burden in the east. I would NOT allow PK to remain as a soverign nation, proxy, district, city-state, or performing arts center. I would invade to destroy the country, eliminate it, Islamabad Delenda Est. If you're the Pakistani's do you fight America or India? The response may be one of geography, but emotionally they'd go with the devil they know (America) rather than a sworn enemy, especially if we announce that Afghanistan will own everything west of the Indus.
Nation building....We're already into the "No chance in hell of this happening, Free, no matter how right you may be." so let's continue. Treat it like Germany and Japan under the Marshall Plan and make our aid contingent upon security. Right now, I'd tell the Afghans to GFY: live in shit, starve, watch your children die, and see ya', wouldn't want to be ya'. Send the message to the entire planet that America will be your ally, but if you start killing Americans we go home. That is the policy I'd extend to the Newly Conquered Area Formely Known as Pakistan. When I was done I'd go before the UN and remind everyone what we shell out to the UN, to NATO, and to any other junior League of Nations wannabes out there and then I'd ask them, "Does anyone want Next? Does anyone want to put their quarters on my pool table?"

There would be howls of protest and righteous indignation, but I guarantee you that no one would take the bait. Wait a decade or two, beef up their military (China and Russia), but an immediate response? No.

We would take horrendous casualties if we invaded PK. SOF, Army and Marine infantry, and the AF would be reminded of the value of CASR....but we could do it.

We just never will. I think once we wrap up Afghanistan we're going to be gun shy about war, especially commiting troops. Drones and remote bombing are the way of the future because we are soft and risk adverse, not because they are better, but because they are more polticially acceptable.

Great answer! Thanks for the input. The idea of "horrendous casualties" is shocking to me; I think the since the Gulf War we've become pretty spoiled as far as the sort of enemies we face and the losses we incurred.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Huh. Wonder how many times per day the good doctor regrets helping US.

Doctor who aided hunt for bin Laden languishes, forgotten

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Shakil Afridi has languished in jail for years — since 2011, when the Pakistani doctor used a vaccination scam in an attempt to identify Osama bin Laden's home, aiding U.S. Navy Seals who tracked and killed the al-Qaida leader.

Americans might wonder how Pakistan could imprison a man who helped track down the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Pakistanis are apt to ask a different question: how could the United States betray its trust and cheapen its sovereignty with a secret nighttime raid that shamed the military and its intelligence agencies?