Really struggling with what to think of the NSA/phone story
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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JHD
Member
A question for the IT people here, based on a real life experience. So me and a girlfriend are emailing about a pair of fabulous Tori burch sandals we both liked. I am on Gmail. Bear with me, the details are relevant. Subsequently, I was online shopping for said Tori Burch sandals. First, to Nordstrom. They were sold out. I didn't know where else to look. So I log into Facebook, and lo and behold, said Tori Burch sandals, in the color I was looking for at Nordstrom, was right there with a link to Shopbop.com. Yes, I did get the sandals, but I digress from my question, which is:
with all the information coming out about the NSA having access to information about our emails, and getting information, or attempting to get information, from Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Lavabit, etc.,to me it sounds like the NSA could determine content of an email based on key words. I promise the question is coming...
So in the email to my girlfriend, about shoes, and I said something like, "those shoes are the bomb, and I would kill for them. I will start a holy war to get them as Nordstrom doesn't have them", couldn't the NSA know enough about that email to say they want to read it, even though it is harmless?
That is my question. Ultimately, aren't they reading the emails, in effect? Or not?
with all the information coming out about the NSA having access to information about our emails, and getting information, or attempting to get information, from Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Lavabit, etc.,to me it sounds like the NSA could determine content of an email based on key words. I promise the question is coming...
So in the email to my girlfriend, about shoes, and I said something like, "those shoes are the bomb, and I would kill for them. I will start a holy war to get them as Nordstrom doesn't have them", couldn't the NSA know enough about that email to say they want to read it, even though it is harmless?
That is my question. Ultimately, aren't they reading the emails, in effect? Or not?
Facebook and Google are for sure, they have teams of guys that create algorithm's to sort through all our data and send us ads pertaining to what we like.
The email isn't what caused those to pop up on Facebook. It was the visit to Nordstrom's web site. Note the little facebook icon down at the bottom that allows you to "Like" the site. That icon is pulled from facebook so that it doesn't need you to log in. That means that facebook knows the URL of the page you are on (the address). When you did a search, facebook noted that YOU went to a page with Tori Burch. For example, the address I get when I search for "my house" in the address bar is http://shop.nordstrom.com/sr?origin=keywordsearch&contextualcategoryid=2375500&keyword=my house
Facebook now knows that I searched for "my house" and will tailor the ad experience on their page and all of the embedded ads in other sites to it.
It's the same reason that hitting a page that has advertisements from Amazon on it will result in you seeing that same product in your suggested items on the Amazon web site. One wrong click and you're branded for life...until the next wrong click. I'll give you an example, I was searching for a Christmas present for a friend last year. It happens to be a female friend. I looked at some makeup gift bag thingies on Amazon before buying her a new pool cue. For the next 6 months, every time I looked at the Drudge report, the amazon ads there were suggesting I buy a purse or feminine hygiene products and such. I finally had to call and tell them that I was NOT the Troll and they stopped (not really, but had to take a shot at someone). It wasn't until I bought some men's cologne from them that they stopped with all the gurly ads.
And yes, google reads any gmail and facebook reads your profile. Also, lately facebook has been aiming to track where the mouse is on the screen so they can tell what you are reading (if you tend to follow your eyes with the mouse) or what you almost clicked.
Facebook now knows that I searched for "my house" and will tailor the ad experience on their page and all of the embedded ads in other sites to it.
It's the same reason that hitting a page that has advertisements from Amazon on it will result in you seeing that same product in your suggested items on the Amazon web site. One wrong click and you're branded for life...until the next wrong click. I'll give you an example, I was searching for a Christmas present for a friend last year. It happens to be a female friend. I looked at some makeup gift bag thingies on Amazon before buying her a new pool cue. For the next 6 months, every time I looked at the Drudge report, the amazon ads there were suggesting I buy a purse or feminine hygiene products and such. I finally had to call and tell them that I was NOT the Troll and they stopped (not really, but had to take a shot at someone). It wasn't until I bought some men's cologne from them that they stopped with all the gurly ads.
And yes, google reads any gmail and facebook reads your profile. Also, lately facebook has been aiming to track where the mouse is on the screen so they can tell what you are reading (if you tend to follow your eyes with the mouse) or what you almost clicked.
JHD
Member
That is exactly my fear. Based upon the ads popping up like that, they seem to not only be scanning emails for keywords, shopping habits, etc., but somehow Google and Facebook are linked together to be able to do this. And I am sure there are more links between them and other services that aren't as visible or obvious.
You'll love this one then:
http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/10/30/facebook-considers-vast-increase-in-data-collection/
JHD
Member
Thank you. Excellent explanation. So how does the Drudge Report know that you have been on Amazon and vice versa? Is all of that tied into the Like button as well?
Brill
SOF Support
Cookies!!!
JHD
Member
If Facebook can do this, and everything else other companies are doing as discussed above, I can't believe the NSA doesn't have the ability to read, or at least determine content of, emails. Maybe I am overly paranoid.
JHD
Member
no, amazon pays their ad partners to put ads on their page. If you click on the ad, then the partner gets paid a few cents. If you pay attention to ads, you'll see a ton of amazon ads across the web. These are technically "embedded content" so it comes from amazon, not from Drudge. Drudge just drops in some custom code and it just "works".
Here's one from the page right now, this one is from the Ad Choices network. If I click on that ad, then any other pages that are partnered with Ad choices would start showing me related products. I'd get products from LG, I'd get mobile phone ads, I might even get a few bicycling related ads. And a small file called a tracking cookie would be placed in my internet folders to identify me to the network any time an ad needed to be delivered. Facebook and Google are light years ahead of the rest of them though, mainly because they can tie the ad clicks to your profile. That allows them to get even more specific with their ads, which is why something that is free like Google made so much money selling advertising.
Here's one from the page right now, this one is from the Ad Choices network. If I click on that ad, then any other pages that are partnered with Ad choices would start showing me related products. I'd get products from LG, I'd get mobile phone ads, I might even get a few bicycling related ads. And a small file called a tracking cookie would be placed in my internet folders to identify me to the network any time an ad needed to be delivered. Facebook and Google are light years ahead of the rest of them though, mainly because they can tie the ad clicks to your profile. That allows them to get even more specific with their ads, which is why something that is free like Google made so much money selling advertising.
JHD
Member
Learning a lot. Thank you, again.
Privacy is dead. Forget about it, it's completely dead. There's a company out in the mid west (Utah I think) that started buying information on people in the early 80's and now knows just about everything about just about everybody. Purchasing habits, shopping habits, the bank you use, credit cards you own, how much you paid for your house (and anything else that is public record). I'm a database guy/data warehouse guy. That's my specialty within IT. Let me tell you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Do you have any customer loyalty cards? You know, best buy, Kroger, etc? If so, then every single time you use that card for a purchase, they know exactly what you bought, how you paid for it, where you live, etc. They have a buying profile for you. So then they take that profile and tie it into their stores on Amazon, *poof* even if you NEVER set up an account on Amazon, the first time you do, the suggestions are being tailored specifically based on your buying cycle and type of products that they know you purchased. You didn't think they actually gave you those cards for free stuff and discounts without getting something back, did you? Right now you are thinking "but....but... they have privacy policies that say that they won't share my data" Read the fine print. There's usually something in there that says "we will only share your data with our affiliates or partners" Guess who they affiliate themselves with....
aha, here we go, just got one. This is an Amazon ad. Notice that they are part of the ad choices network as well (see the blue arrow up in the corner?) So I have tracking cookies blocked. It knows that I looked at the phone ad because I haven't closed my browser yet. Here's a related product that is a category match, namely personal electronics.
I'm refraining from declaring more jihads on the uniform office at work, mother nature and parking wardens for the mean time.
Red Flag 1
Verified Military
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I consider that every website I visit, has been handed my business card. I was not aware how deeply they go. Thanks for the insight.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Soon it will be like this....not big government....but business.
That's just the surface. The depths would scare anyone. Example: psychology says that like minded individuals will tend to associate with each other, therefore if my FB friends like something, there's a pretty good chance that I will like it as well. So if several of my "friends" click on a specific ad, FB will then present ME with the same ad, even though I have given them no reason to think that I would be interested.
Anyhow, enough for one night. and we've moved at about a 45 degree angle off-topic. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
JHD
Member
It is truly scary how our privacy has eroded. I have done lots of work in privacy, but on the policy and procedure side, not the IT side. My role was to implement policies and procedures to ensure that employees did not abuse their privilege with our customer information, opt outs, and things of that nature, and customer advocacy if there was an issue with their information.
On the opposite side, I also had to work on Know Your Customer stuff, which is in direct contravention with privacy, and is another whole can of scary worms.
Our society has become so dependent on technology, we are making it incredibly easy for businesses and .gov to intrude on our lives.
On the opposite side, I also had to work on Know Your Customer stuff, which is in direct contravention with privacy, and is another whole can of scary worms.
Our society has become so dependent on technology, we are making it incredibly easy for businesses and .gov to intrude on our lives.
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