Retention and Recruitment Crisis

So - even Recruiters are leaving service.
Does the Army recruiting school have a DEI component to it?
Maybe there is a pattern developing.

Put me on a 6 figure a year contract and I will recruit the shit out of DEI candidates. Most will go to Signal, MI, or okay, I'll stop sterotyping before it gets out of hand because there are others. Regardless, I will find the BEST DEI candidates our country has to offer. Send me the target numbers and watch me work my magic.

Name the group and I'll find one or more. I'll fraudulently sign anyone 16 or older because paperwork. All are welcome. Be All You Can Force Others to Be. Terms and conditions apply, I want 50% up front, 50% on delivery, with targeted incentives.

You will not be sorry.
 
I'm pretty sure I posted earlier in this thread that the Army asked me (everyone in a similar situation) last year to postpone retirement for a few months, into the next fiscal year. The reasoning was transparent: to make the numbers look better for whatever reporting period they were on. Once past that... buh-bye, thank you for your service.

One of the major reasons the Army is having recruiting issues is because people like me--and many like me--are telling people not to join.
https://archive.ph/kfVzY
 
All are welcome. Be All You Can Force Others to Be. Terms and conditions apply, I want 50% up front, 50% on delivery, with targeted incentives.
Will you pay off the student debt from my Masters Degree in 'Foresight' from the University of Houston?

I was expecting a much better economy but things didn't work out like I predicted.






On a related note - my son is ETS'ing this month. His leadership decided to talk to him to find out why he was leaving. They couldn't understand why a fine young sergeant with a promising career ahead of him would want to leave the service when life in the 101st is so awesome and rewarding.
He claims that he answered their questions honestly and professionally even after their tone shifted from "you're a great troop why do you want to leave" to a relatively unprovoked tone of "you're an idiot and you're going to regret it - but we don't need people like you anyway" in a matter of minutes.

...from a unit that made him sign out on terminal leave 8 days before they gave him his ETS orders.
 
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I could see adding more recruiters if there were people breaking down the recruiters' doors and no one was home because they were out signing people up, but the offices are ghost towns. Recruiters are there but no one is walking in. Hundreds of new recruiters, and all of a sudden? That's weird. But then, in the military 'weird' is normal, so....
 
Yea, the G-1 should be fired for this. I'm sure everybody being forced to report to Knox in the next 6 days are going to be wonderful spokespeople for new recruits.

Crazy idea, but if the army is always hurting for recruiters, why not open more slots for guard/reserve members to get on orders, or god forbid allow recruiters to be GS employees who'd previously served?

I guarantee both of those options would solve this issue overnight.

ETA: I say this as someone who'd happily be a recruiter, but under my state's current rules I would have to turn down E7 in April AND not be assigned an AGR slot, it's just 12 months ADOS. Not worth it under the current system.
 
Back in my day which wasn't very long ago, DA assigned guy to drill and recruiting based on being high performers. Soldiers generally don't to do those assignments at times. Recruiting on a 3 year rotation is generally good for family life however and guys with multiple children that I know that went on a recruiting tour enjoyed the time at home with their families.
 
Back in my day which wasn't very long ago, DA assigned guy to drill and recruiting based on being high performers. Soldiers generally don't to do those assignments at times. Recruiting on a 3 year rotation is generally good for family life however and guys with multiple children that I know that went on a recruiting tour enjoyed the time at home with their families.

Also back in the day (not sure if it is still is like that), Marines hit a fork in the road, recruiting was one branch, DI was the other, and you would have to do one or the other. My dad did two recruiting tours, back-to-back, one 'regular', the other as an officer recruiter.

All my time in the navy/navy reserve, I have zero clue how those guys got picked.

All I know is with all of my time selling all sorts of shit in my childhood for band, sports, scouts, etc., I hate selling anything, and I would make a lousy recruiter.
 
Call me crazy - but hear me out...

Once upon a time...
...I agreed to drive a buddy to the recruiting office - and get this - so we could go do some underage drinking when he was done talking to the recruiter !!!

Me: Going to see an Army recruiter? Are you serious? You fucking loser. Just don't be all day - we need to hit the Korean grocery store before rush hour or they wont sell us beer...

We got there and the recruiter looked like a bad ass. This dude was every bit of 6'2 and jacked.
It was the mid 80's and I was just an 18 year old punk kid with a dirty shop uniform, an earring, and a haircut that looked like I was a roadie for Motley Crue. I was an angry (I know, right) troubled teenager that was going nowhere and the recruiter just gave me a look of pity and went about his business like I didn't exist.

My buddy was (still is) a good dude - clean cut - smart - polite - and was determined to join the Army.
The recruiter was an E5 - not that it mattered or that I even knew the difference - but he had a picture of him and President Reagan hung near his desk - as well as a picture of him taken while he was walking a post as a Tomb Guard - and this fucking guy was looking down his nose at me.
I was both intimidated and inspired by this guy.

His desk was pretty much in the open and while I paced back and forth looking at stuff on the walls, I could hear them talk. He made a few comments to my buddy that I overheard that really got under my skin.
He talked about motivation - respect - hard work - commitment - responsibility - standards - and while he was clearly "pitching" my buddy - the attitude that I brought into the building made me feel like he was talking shit about me and all of the traits that I did NOT possess. It was like he was saying that he could tell from the way I looked that I didn't have what it took to serve in his Army.

To be VERY specific - he never made a pitch at me - he didn't offer me a pamphlet - nothing.
I was invisible to this guy.
When we left - he said goodbye to Steve - to me, not a word.
...well, FUCK that guy.

Fast forward a few months. My buddy is in AIT, getting ready to go to Airborne School and I am just hanging out - working a job that paid for hot rod parts and weekend partying and not much more.
I just couldn't stop thinking about that fucking meat head and his stupid blue suit and his stupid condescending face and that bullshit he was saying about motivation, hard work, respect, and commitment and how convinced I was that his bullshit recruiting pitch was as much for my buddy as it was to talk shit to me...
I got a haircut (which shocked the shit out of my parents)
I went back to SGT Kirby's office to talk to him - and somehow, he remembered that I was the guy that came in with 'Steven' a while back.
I took the ASVAB - did well - and before I knew it - this guy wasn't actually the meat headed prick in a stupid uniform that I thought he was. He was trying to help me become someone better.
He talked to me about the same shit he talked to Steve about - but this time it felt more like a friendly challenge than an attack. He talked about Airborne School and his first jump and what blood wings were and I wanted some of that shit.
Blood wings?
Holy Shit that sounds fucking epic!
I was sold.
I wanted to earn me some blood wings just like this fucking guy.

I didn't join the Army because of some ham fisted slogan.
I didn't join the Army because some chuckle head promised to write me a check for some free college.
I didn't join because some cheesy TV commercial "validated my identity"
I didn't join to make hip hop videos and EweToob content
I didn't join to play on the Army video Game Team
I didn't join the Army because of some lame fucking recruiting campaign served up by some board room marketing executive...

I joined because of one Soldiers presence.
I joined because I was exposed to a Soldier that embodied what I expected a soldier to look like.
I joined because I was challenged to be better.

We will continue to lower standards and throw precious tax payer dollars into the shitter until our nations senior leaders figure out that no amount of bullshit will fool someone when you are asking them to take a job that endangers their life.
The military has to inspire its recruits - otherwise it is just hiring employees like every other business.
A military cannot pander to its recruits if it is looking to recruit warriors.
Until our legion of celebrity generals and their career-ladder-climbing civilian counterparts realize that - we are doomed...

As a side note - the picture of then Corporal Kirby with President Reagan was taken while he was a Sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier. He was posted next to the guard shack when some nut stepped over the chain and walked out into the restricted area. CPL Kirby went to port arms with his M14 and issued the challenge that many people have seen them do when someone gets froggy and crosses that chain...
...this nut however, pulled out a pistol at pointed it at him. Unfazed, Kirby remained at port arms in front of this jackass and stood his ground - straight up gangster. As this dip shit stood there not sure what to do next - considering that he was now faced with a dude that stood over 6 feet tall, built like a fucking linebacker holding a ten pound piece of wood and steel with a 7 inch long bayonet blade sticking off the end of the barrel.

THAT is who we need Recruiting the next generation of American soldiers - someone that will stand at port arms with an unloaded rifle while refusing to let some asshole with a loaded pistol take one more mother fucking step forward.
Intersectionality isn't going to get it done.


Rant Mode Deactivated
 
Call me crazy - but hear me out...

Once upon a time...
...I agreed to drive a buddy to the recruiting office - and get this - so we could go do some underage drinking when he was done talking to the recruiter !!!

Me: Going to see an Army recruiter? Are you serious? You fucking loser. Just don't be all day - we need to hit the Korean grocery store before rush hour or they wont sell us beer...

We got there and the recruiter looked like a bad ass. This dude was every bit of 6'2 and jacked.
It was the mid 80's and I was just an 18 year old punk kid with a dirty shop uniform, an earring, and a haircut that looked like I was a roadie for Motley Crue. I was an angry (I know, right) troubled teenager that was going nowhere and the recruiter just gave me a look of pity and went about his business like I didn't exist.

My buddy was (still is) a good dude - clean cut - smart - polite - and was determined to join the Army.
The recruiter was an E5 - not that it mattered or that I even knew the difference - but he had a picture of him and President Reagan hung near his desk - as well as a picture of him taken while he was walking a post as a Tomb Guard - and this fucking guy was looking down his nose at me.
I was both intimidated and inspired by this guy.

His desk was pretty much in the open and while I paced back and forth looking at stuff on the walls, I could hear them talk. He made a few comments to my buddy that I overheard that really got under my skin.
He talked about motivation - respect - hard work - commitment - responsibility - standards - and while he was clearly "pitching" my buddy - the attitude that I brought into the building made me feel like he was talking shit about me and all of the traits that I did NOT possess. It was like he was saying that he could tell from the way I looked that I didn't have what it took to serve in his Army.

To be VERY specific - he never made a pitch at me - he didn't offer me a pamphlet - nothing.
I was invisible to this guy.
When we left - he said goodbye to Steve - to me, not a word.
...well, FUCK that guy.

Fast forward a few months. My buddy is in AIT, getting ready to go to Airborne School and I am just hanging out - working a job that paid for hot rod parts and weekend partying and not much more.
I just couldn't stop thinking about that fucking meat head and his stupid blue suit and his stupid condescending face and that bullshit he was saying about motivation, hard work, respect, and commitment and how convinced I was that his bullshit recruiting pitch was as much for my buddy as it was to talk shit to me...
I got a haircut (which shocked the shit out of my parents)
I went back to SGT Kirby's office to talk to him - and somehow, he remembered that I was the guy that came in with 'Steven' a while back.
I took the ASVAB - did well - and before I knew it - this guy wasn't actually the meat headed prick in a stupid uniform that I thought he was. He was trying to help me become someone better.
He talked to me about the same shit he talked to Steve about - but this time it felt more like a friendly challenge than an attack. He talked about Airborne School and his first jump and what blood wings were and I wanted some of that shit.
Blood wings?
Holy Shit that sounds fucking epic!
I was sold.
I wanted to earn me some blood wings just like this fucking guy.

I didn't join the Army because of some ham fisted slogan.
I didn't join the Army because some chuckle head promised to write me a check for some free college.
I didn't join because some cheesy TV commercial "validated my identity"
I didn't join to make hip hop videos and EweToob content
I didn't join to play on the Army video Game Team
I didn't join the Army because of some lame fucking recruiting campaign served up by some board room marketing executive...

I joined because of one Soldiers presence.
I joined because I was exposed to a Soldier that embodied what I expected a soldier to look like.
I joined because I was challenged to be better.

We will continue to lower standards and throw precious tax payer dollars into the shitter until our nations senior leaders figure out that no amount of bullshit will fool someone when you are asking them to take a job that endangers their life.
The military has to inspire its recruits - otherwise it is just hiring employees like every other business.
A military cannot pander to its recruits if it is looking to recruit warriors.
Until our legion of celebrity generals and their career-ladder-climbing civilian counterparts realize that - we are doomed...

As a side note - the picture of then Corporal Kirby with President Reagan was taken while he was a Sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier. He was posted next to the guard shack when some nut stepped over the chain and walked out into the restricted area. CPL Kirby went to port arms with his M14 and issued the challenge that many people have seen them do when someone gets froggy and crosses that chain...
...this nut however, pulled out a pistol at pointed it at him. Unfazed, Kirby remained at port arms in front of this jackass and stood his ground - straight up gangster. As this dip shit stood there not sure what to do next - considering that he was now faced with a dude that stood over 6 feet tall, built like a fucking linebacker holding a ten pound piece of wood and steel with a 7 inch long bayonet blade sticking off the end of the barrel.

THAT is who we need Recruiting the next generation of American soldiers - someone that will stand at port arms with an unloaded rifle while refusing to let some asshole with a loaded pistol take one more mother fucking step forward.
Intersectionality isn't going to get it done.


Rant Mode Deactivated

Great story. I love hearing about what motivated people to join, regardless of the reasons. I have no beef with the folks who join for college money, to go to Europe, learn how to fix computers, a cool commercial, etc. People got their reasons.

I DO care about people doing the right thing when they join and being a good solider/sailor/Marine/AF guy, regardless of why they join.
 
Will you pay off the student debt from my Masters Degree in 'Foresight' from the University of Houston?

I was expecting a much better economy but things didn't work out like I predicted.

I think we can find a way to pay off a doctorate in foreskin.
Call me crazy - but hear me out...

Once upon a time...
...I agreed to drive a buddy to the recruiting office - and get this - so we could go do some underage drinking when he was done talking to the recruiter !!!

Me: Going to see an Army recruiter? Are you serious? You fucking loser. Just don't be all day - we need to hit the Korean grocery store before rush hour or they wont sell us beer...

We got there and the recruiter looked like a bad ass. This dude was every bit of 6'2 and jacked.
It was the mid 80's and I was just an 18 year old punk kid with a dirty shop uniform, an earring, and a haircut that looked like I was a roadie for Motley Crue. I was an angry (I know, right) troubled teenager that was going nowhere and the recruiter just gave me a look of pity and went about his business like I didn't exist.

My buddy was (still is) a good dude - clean cut - smart - polite - and was determined to join the Army.
The recruiter was an E5 - not that it mattered or that I even knew the difference - but he had a picture of him and President Reagan hung near his desk - as well as a picture of him taken while he was walking a post as a Tomb Guard - and this fucking guy was looking down his nose at me.
I was both intimidated and inspired by this guy.

His desk was pretty much in the open and while I paced back and forth looking at stuff on the walls, I could hear them talk. He made a few comments to my buddy that I overheard that really got under my skin.
He talked about motivation - respect - hard work - commitment - responsibility - standards - and while he was clearly "pitching" my buddy - the attitude that I brought into the building made me feel like he was talking shit about me and all of the traits that I did NOT possess. It was like he was saying that he could tell from the way I looked that I didn't have what it took to serve in his Army.

To be VERY specific - he never made a pitch at me - he didn't offer me a pamphlet - nothing.
I was invisible to this guy.
When we left - he said goodbye to Steve - to me, not a word.
...well, FUCK that guy.

Fast forward a few months. My buddy is in AIT, getting ready to go to Airborne School and I am just hanging out - working a job that paid for hot rod parts and weekend partying and not much more.
I just couldn't stop thinking about that fucking meat head and his stupid blue suit and his stupid condescending face and that bullshit he was saying about motivation, hard work, respect, and commitment and how convinced I was that his bullshit recruiting pitch was as much for my buddy as it was to talk shit to me...
I got a haircut (which shocked the shit out of my parents)
I went back to SGT Kirby's office to talk to him - and somehow, he remembered that I was the guy that came in with 'Steven' a while back.
I took the ASVAB - did well - and before I knew it - this guy wasn't actually the meat headed prick in a stupid uniform that I thought he was. He was trying to help me become someone better.
He talked to me about the same shit he talked to Steve about - but this time it felt more like a friendly challenge than an attack. He talked about Airborne School and his first jump and what blood wings were and I wanted some of that shit.
Blood wings?
Holy Shit that sounds fucking epic!
I was sold.
I wanted to earn me some blood wings just like this fucking guy.

I didn't join the Army because of some ham fisted slogan.
I didn't join the Army because some chuckle head promised to write me a check for some free college.
I didn't join because some cheesy TV commercial "validated my identity"
I didn't join to make hip hop videos and EweToob content
I didn't join to play on the Army video Game Team
I didn't join the Army because of some lame fucking recruiting campaign served up by some board room marketing executive...

I joined because of one Soldiers presence.
I joined because I was exposed to a Soldier that embodied what I expected a soldier to look like.
I joined because I was challenged to be better.

We will continue to lower standards and throw precious tax payer dollars into the shitter until our nations senior leaders figure out that no amount of bullshit will fool someone when you are asking them to take a job that endangers their life.
The military has to inspire its recruits - otherwise it is just hiring employees like every other business.
A military cannot pander to its recruits if it is looking to recruit warriors.
Until our legion of celebrity generals and their career-ladder-climbing civilian counterparts realize that - we are doomed...

As a side note - the picture of then Corporal Kirby with President Reagan was taken while he was a Sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier. He was posted next to the guard shack when some nut stepped over the chain and walked out into the restricted area. CPL Kirby went to port arms with his M14 and issued the challenge that many people have seen them do when someone gets froggy and crosses that chain...
...this nut however, pulled out a pistol at pointed it at him. Unfazed, Kirby remained at port arms in front of this jackass and stood his ground - straight up gangster. As this dip shit stood there not sure what to do next - considering that he was now faced with a dude that stood over 6 feet tall, built like a fucking linebacker holding a ten pound piece of wood and steel with a 7 inch long bayonet blade sticking off the end of the barrel.

THAT is who we need Recruiting the next generation of American soldiers - someone that will stand at port arms with an unloaded rifle while refusing to let some asshole with a loaded pistol take one more mother fucking step forward.
Intersectionality isn't going to get it done.


Rant Mode Deactivated

I'm not hard right now, but @Muppet will be when he reads this. Not that homoerotic behavior over a recruiting story is wrong...especially if my recruiting contract job comes through.

Wait, that doesn't sound right.
 
This tale wouldn't be complete without that Paul Harvey "the rest of the story" flavor...

SGT Kirby made two phone calls to my house after I left for boot camp. One of them when I was a few weeks into AIT - he asked my mom how everyone was doing and to see how I was getting along. He called again about six months later to see if I had graduated from Airborne School and told my mom to tell me congratulations and good luck. Never heard from him again.

I found out a few years later that SSG Kirby was killed in an automobile accident by a drunk driver going the wrong direction on the expressway.
America has a nasty habit of squandering her greatest resources.
 
Call me crazy - but hear me out...

Once upon a time...
...I agreed to drive a buddy to the recruiting office - and get this - so we could go do some underage drinking when he was done talking to the recruiter !!!

Me: Going to see an Army recruiter? Are you serious? You fucking loser. Just don't be all day - we need to hit the Korean grocery store before rush hour or they wont sell us beer...

We got there and the recruiter looked like a bad ass. This dude was every bit of 6'2 and jacked.
It was the mid 80's and I was just an 18 year old punk kid with a dirty shop uniform, an earring, and a haircut that looked like I was a roadie for Motley Crue. I was an angry (I know, right) troubled teenager that was going nowhere and the recruiter just gave me a look of pity and went about his business like I didn't exist.

My buddy was (still is) a good dude - clean cut - smart - polite - and was determined to join the Army.
The recruiter was an E5 - not that it mattered or that I even knew the difference - but he had a picture of him and President Reagan hung near his desk - as well as a picture of him taken while he was walking a post as a Tomb Guard - and this fucking guy was looking down his nose at me.
I was both intimidated and inspired by this guy.

His desk was pretty much in the open and while I paced back and forth looking at stuff on the walls, I could hear them talk. He made a few comments to my buddy that I overheard that really got under my skin.
He talked about motivation - respect - hard work - commitment - responsibility - standards - and while he was clearly "pitching" my buddy - the attitude that I brought into the building made me feel like he was talking shit about me and all of the traits that I did NOT possess. It was like he was saying that he could tell from the way I looked that I didn't have what it took to serve in his Army.

To be VERY specific - he never made a pitch at me - he didn't offer me a pamphlet - nothing.
I was invisible to this guy.
When we left - he said goodbye to Steve - to me, not a word.
...well, FUCK that guy.

Fast forward a few months. My buddy is in AIT, getting ready to go to Airborne School and I am just hanging out - working a job that paid for hot rod parts and weekend partying and not much more.
I just couldn't stop thinking about that fucking meat head and his stupid blue suit and his stupid condescending face and that bullshit he was saying about motivation, hard work, respect, and commitment and how convinced I was that his bullshit recruiting pitch was as much for my buddy as it was to talk shit to me...
I got a haircut (which shocked the shit out of my parents)
I went back to SGT Kirby's office to talk to him - and somehow, he remembered that I was the guy that came in with 'Steven' a while back.
I took the ASVAB - did well - and before I knew it - this guy wasn't actually the meat headed prick in a stupid uniform that I thought he was. He was trying to help me become someone better.
He talked to me about the same shit he talked to Steve about - but this time it felt more like a friendly challenge than an attack. He talked about Airborne School and his first jump and what blood wings were and I wanted some of that shit.
Blood wings?
Holy Shit that sounds fucking epic!
I was sold.
I wanted to earn me some blood wings just like this fucking guy.

I didn't join the Army because of some ham fisted slogan.
I didn't join the Army because some chuckle head promised to write me a check for some free college.
I didn't join because some cheesy TV commercial "validated my identity"
I didn't join to make hip hop videos and EweToob content
I didn't join to play on the Army video Game Team
I didn't join the Army because of some lame fucking recruiting campaign served up by some board room marketing executive...

I joined because of one Soldiers presence.
I joined because I was exposed to a Soldier that embodied what I expected a soldier to look like.
I joined because I was challenged to be better.

We will continue to lower standards and throw precious tax payer dollars into the shitter until our nations senior leaders figure out that no amount of bullshit will fool someone when you are asking them to take a job that endangers their life.
The military has to inspire its recruits - otherwise it is just hiring employees like every other business.
A military cannot pander to its recruits if it is looking to recruit warriors.
Until our legion of celebrity generals and their career-ladder-climbing civilian counterparts realize that - we are doomed...

As a side note - the picture of then Corporal Kirby with President Reagan was taken while he was a Sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier. He was posted next to the guard shack when some nut stepped over the chain and walked out into the restricted area. CPL Kirby went to port arms with his M14 and issued the challenge that many people have seen them do when someone gets froggy and crosses that chain...
...this nut however, pulled out a pistol at pointed it at him. Unfazed, Kirby remained at port arms in front of this jackass and stood his ground - straight up gangster. As this dip shit stood there not sure what to do next - considering that he was now faced with a dude that stood over 6 feet tall, built like a fucking linebacker holding a ten pound piece of wood and steel with a 7 inch long bayonet blade sticking off the end of the barrel.

THAT is who we need Recruiting the next generation of American soldiers - someone that will stand at port arms with an unloaded rifle while refusing to let some asshole with a loaded pistol take one more mother fucking step forward.
Intersectionality isn't going to get it done.


Rant Mode Deactivated

If there was ever a post to warrant a change to the awful "love" reaction, this is it.

Thank you for sharing that story @Box
 
Also back in the day (not sure if it is still is like that), Marines hit a fork in the road, recruiting was one branch, DI was the other, and you would have to do one or the other. My dad did two recruiting tours, back-to-back, one 'regular', the other as an officer recruiter.

All my time in the navy/navy reserve, I have zero clue how those guys got picked.

All I know is with all of my time selling all sorts of shit in my childhood for band, sports, scouts, etc., I hate selling anything, and I would make a lousy recruiter.

The Corps looks at things quite differently from the Army culturally. Especially with officers, but still so with Enlisted instructors for schoolhouse assignments. You don't get a slot to be an instructor if you suck, if you're an instructor at IOC or AOBC, flight school, etc. You're top in your year group. The Army? People hate going to the school house as officers because culturally it is regarded as forcefully taking a knee and culturally you want to stay in FORSCOM as long as possible. So quality of officers at times that are instructors in ROTC can be strange. Enlisted folks don't have the same cultural issue of it being a bad assignment, but still want to stay FORSCOM forever.

The Navy from what I saw with my BIL being an IP at Pensacola. It was a place the Navy sent guys who would not be making Lt Cmdr. But the Marine IPs he served with were shit hot.
 
I was reading some interesting stuff last night on the TerminalCWO IG. Let's just say, I wouldn't want to be a passenger in the back of a hawk at night.
 
The Navy from what I saw with my BIL being an IP at Pensacola. It was a place the Navy sent guys who would not be making Lt Cmdr. But the Marine IPs he served with were shit hot.

That's an interesting take. I'm not saying you're wrong because maybe the culture has changed?

I looked it up. Everyone in a CO/ XO slot in a Hornet squadron I checked (6 squadrons/ 12 Pilots or WSO's) had one of two career paths: Top Gun grad with a follow on to either the Atlantic or Pacific Strike Fighter Weapons School OR they were instructors in one of two FRS's.

Now, the primary training pipeline might be different, taking people from the street to their wings and before the FRS. Or the entire culture has changed? idk
 
The Corps looks at things quite differently from the Army culturally. Especially with officers, but still so with Enlisted instructors for schoolhouse assignments. You don't get a slot to be an instructor if you suck, if you're an instructor at IOC or AOBC, flight school, etc. You're top in your year group. The Army? People hate going to the school house as officers because culturally it is regarded as forcefully taking a knee and culturally you want to stay in FORSCOM as long as possible. So quality of officers at times that are instructors in ROTC can be strange. Enlisted folks don't have the same cultural issue of it being a bad assignment, but still want to stay FORSCOM forever.

The Navy from what I saw with my BIL being an IP at Pensacola. It was a place the Navy sent guys who would not be making Lt Cmdr. But the Marine IPs he served with were shit hot.

That's an interesting take. I'm not saying you're wrong because maybe the culture has changed?

I looked it up. Everyone in a CO/ XO slot in a Hornet squadron I checked (6 squadrons/ 12 Pilots or WSO's) had one of two career paths: Top Gun grad with a follow on to either the Atlantic or Pacific Strike Fighter Weapons School OR they were instructors in one of two FRS's.

Now, the primary training pipeline might be different, taking people from the street to their wings and before the FRS. Or the entire culture has changed? idk

Some folks slated for command track (so they start as XO) will cool their heels as an IP waiting for orders, as will for some waiting for non-aviation billets. I know a P8 pilot who did IP between fleet time and joint time at the Pentagon.

RE: Marine/Navy-centric billets, it seemed like a prevailing attitude that I&I duty was undesirable (I think but don't know that it's an option at various points along the algorithm) , but I did I&I duty and just about everyone really loved doing it. I have to say it was pretty easy. Our 1st sgt came to I&I from the drill field and had a rep, on day 1 he pulled us together and said, "this is my sunset cruise, I am looking to chill. You keep me and this unit out of trouble, I stay off your back." He was a great guy.
 
That's an interesting take. I'm not saying you're wrong because maybe the culture has changed?

I looked it up. Everyone in a CO/ XO slot in a Hornet squadron I checked (6 squadrons/ 12 Pilots or WSO's) had one of two career paths: Top Gun grad with a follow on to either the Atlantic or Pacific Strike Fighter Weapons School OR they were instructors in one of two FRS's.

Now, the primary training pipeline might be different, taking people from the street to their wings and before the FRS. Or the entire culture has changed? idk
The Navy's Initial training pipeline IP's are mainly Reservists. Wife's BiL did that for 12+ years.
AF has a lot of Reservists IP's too.
 
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