Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[ThunderHorse]

That's an interesting take. I'm not saying you're wrong because maybe the culture has changed?

I looked it up. Everyone in a CO/ XO slot in a Hornet squadron I checked (6 squadrons/ 12 Pilots or WSO's) had one of two career paths: Top Gun grad with a follow on to either the Atlantic or Pacific Strike Fighter Weapons School OR they were instructors in one of two FRS's.

Now, the primary training pipeline might be different, taking people from the street to their wings and before the FRS. Or the entire culture has changed? idk

It is important to note that Top Gun is much different from API and Primary. I would say that from a desirability perspective and how the Navy treats each of these assignments from a career perspective. Pensacola although a lovely tropical place to live is not exactly where Pilots go and end up back in the fleet in good places. So either the guy is choosing to get out by taking that assignment or has some poor evals and the Navy needs to get their blood out of the rock. Only caveat there is the Advanced Flight Helicopter course IPs.

Intermediate and Advanced schools are the desirable assignments if you get an IP assignment.

Then Top Gun assignments are definitely for the best of the best. So I guess to be clear I was talking about the culture at entry level for API and Primary Flight schools and not the highest assignments.

 

[Devildoc]

It is important to note that Top Gun is much different from API and Primary. I would say that from a desirability perspective and how the Navy treats each of these assignments from a career perspective. Pensacola although a lovely tropical place to live is not exactly where Pilots go and end up back in the fleet in good places. So either the guy is choosing to get out by taking that assignment or has some poor evals and the Navy needs to get their blood out of the rock. Only caveat there is the Advanced Flight Helicopter course IPs.

Intermediate and Advanced schools are the desirable assignments if you get an IP assignment.

Then Top Gun assignments are definitely for the best of the best. So I guess to be clear I was talking about the culture at entry level for API and Primary Flight schools and not the highest assignments.

Also, a lot of entry level is done by people just out of flight school, not a billet by orders for a tour but as a placeholder waiting for RAG. Flight school has a mixed bag of nuts, but I don't know who gets assigned to what levels and for what reasons.

Although never stationed there I was there twice for school, once was NACS, and then for officer school. The base has a lot of old school Navy culture, which was nice.

All of the Navy's officer programs have moved to Newport, Rhode Island. I am very happy I went through Pensacola and didn't have to go to Rhode Island.

 

[BloodStripe]

Worse than we know or the Army projects manning and recruitment to decline further. The former is really bad, the latter is, not to be too dramatic, on a fast train to Disasterville.

There's an office or two in the Pentagon shitting razor blades right now.

ETA: 6 days' notice to change your entire life is insane. Being 8% short on recruiters should force multiple people into early retirement. Waiving height/ weight, PT results, and if you can believe terminalcwo...citizenship? The "Wow" icon isn't good enough for the OP.

It’s okay though, the General said he’s sorry as he travels the world on his G2 and has a Major put together his uniform for him each day.

If manning is that bad, fold the colors on the band and any other worthless MOS. Make them go first

 

[Devildoc]

It’s okay though, the General said he’s sorry as he travels the world on his G2 and has a Major put together his uniform for him each day.

If manning is that bad, fold the colors on the band and any other worthless MOS. Make them go first

I love the Marine Corps band at the barracks at 8th and I in DC. Especially their drum and bugle corps. That said, I am good with getting rid of superfluous and needless MOSs. They aren't "real" Marines anyway.

 

[DA SWO]

The Navy brought Reservists in on 3 year contracts a few years ago. AD shit all over the Reservists, then wondered why no one wanted to extend. The Navy's accessions process is FUBAR'd beyond belief.

 

[Devildoc]

The Navy brought Reservists in on 3 year contracts a few years ago. AD shit all over the Reservists, then wondered why no one wanted to extend. The Navy's accessions process is FUBAR'd beyond belief.

Yes, yes it is.

I joined the Navy reserve, then went on orders, bouncing between active duty time and reserve time for years. It was a horrible process, a caste system for sure, they (AD) made it very clear what they thought about us.

Having said that, assimilating into the Marine Corps (active duty and reserve) was easier by a factor of a million, and I don't know if it was because I was a corpsman (then an enroute care RN with Med battalion) but they always embraced me in my job.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Yes, yes it is.

I joined the Navy reserve, then went on orders, bouncing between active duty time and reserve time for years. It was a horrible process, a caste system for sure, they (AD) made it very clear what they thought about us.

Having said that, assimilating into the Marine Corps (active duty and reserve) was easier by a factor of a million, and I don't know if it was because I was a corpsman (then an enroute care RN with Med battalion) but they always embraced me in my job.

That my dear sir, is because Marines are professionals. Integration of reservists into active duty formations also seems culturally far easier in the Army as well.

My host dad at VMI had some crazy stories of watching Navy Captains jump chow lines all the time. And the Marines and Army Officers would look at themselves and shake their heads in disgust. It's worse amongst the air wing from what I have seen. Note that there is no Officer's or Senior enlisted section inside an Army DFAC. You stand in the same line, eat the same chow, sit at the same table.

 

[Devildoc]

That my dear sir, is because Marines are professionals. Integration of reservists into active duty formations also seems culturally far easier in the Army as well.

My host dad at VMI had some crazy stories of watching Navy Captains jump chow lines all the time. And the Marines and Army Officers would look at themselves and shake their heads in disgust. It's worse amongst the air wing from what I have seen. Note that there is no Officer's or Senior enlisted section inside an Army DFAC. You stand in the same line, eat the same chow, sit at the same table.

Yeah, definitely. There are chow halls where everything is mixed, but have tables for officers and SNCOs. I like that in the army and Marines officers eat last, and in the field, the officers often serve the food. Definitely not like that in the Navy.

 

[BloodStripe]

That my dear sir, is because Marines are professionals. Integration of reservists into active duty formations also seems culturally far easier in the Army as well.

My host dad at VMI had some crazy stories of watching Navy Captains jump chow lines all the time. And the Marines and Army Officers would look at themselves and shake their heads in disgust. It's worse amongst the air wing from what I have seen. Note that there is no Officer's or Senior enlisted section inside an Army DFAC. You stand in the same line, eat the same chow, sit at the same table.

We would luncheons or pot lucks at my last Navy command. Our own CO was always served first because she was “our guest.” She’s our own freaking Captain, how the hell is she a guest?

Also fun fact, on a Navy submarine, the Captain eats at their own table with the supply officer at the other end. Any time the Captain wants something there is a little buzzer by the SUPPO that they push and in walks in a Navy chef who is the waiter for the Captain.

 

[Devildoc]

We would luncheons or pot lucks at my last Navy command. Our own CO was always served first because she was “our guest.” She’s our own freaking Captain, how the hell is she a guest?

Also fun fact, on a Navy submarine, the Captain eats at their own table with the supply officer at the other end. Any time the Captain wants something there is a little buzzer by the SUPPO that they push and in walks in a Navy chef who is the waiter for the Captain.

Wardroom etiquette is a whole 'nother discussion. I have a 1/2" thick book from officer school on Navy officer customs/courtesies/etiquette.

I had to fly aboard the USS Dwight D Eisenhower once to teach some classes to medical, before we went they asked us if any of us were in aviation. Most of us were enroute care or had gone through NACS. They told us to bring flightsuits so we could eat in the dirty shirt wardroom. The ship's company wardroom required creased khakis and tie, and we'd have to eat with either the co or xo, so we'd be notified of seating times and arrangements.

I never ate there but I was curious enough to see it, it was like a high-end restaurant...polished silver, nautical art on the bulkhead, nicely appointed.

 

[Topkick]

the Captain eats at their own table

Lol. When he was my post commander, BG Wesley Clark used to eat in the same mess hall and would stand in line and just sit wherever there was an open seat. I'd see brigade commanders, post commanders, division and even corps commanders and their CSMs in the mess hall on any day.

 

[Devildoc]

Lol. When he was my post commander, BG Wesley Clark used to eat in the same mess hall and would stand in line and just sit wherever there was an open seat. I'd see brigade commanders, post commanders, division and even corps commanders and their CSMs in the mess hall on any day.

Have you ever been to the Pentagon? Have you been down to the fast food court?

I was never stationed there, my wife has a good friend whose husband is a colonel and the Air Force and was stationed there, and he took us on a tour a few years ago and we had lunch there. You couldn't swing a dead cat for hitting someone with stars, and I just kept giggling. My wife kept asking me what was funny, I told her it was just funny to see all those generals and admirals eating McDonald's or whatever at a table all by themselves, or waiting in line behind an E1.

Yeah, the Navy has some weird customs. All of them descend from shipboard life.

 

[Topkick]

Have you ever been to the Pentagon?

Yes, same experience.

 

[Topkick]

I'm okay with RHIP when it's not blatant elitism. Its earned. But we all know leadership requires getting in the trenches with your troops, sharing the suck, and never losing touch of where you came from. Doesn't mean you can't indulge in your success when it doesn't effect morale. IE jr enlisted guys drink cheap beer and whiskey. If I made what a GO makes, I'd probably drink top shelf.

 

[Devildoc]

I'm okay with RHIP when it's not blatant elitism. Its earned. But we all know leadership requires getting in the trenches with your troops, sharing the suck, and never losing touch of where you came from. Doesn't mean you can't indulge in your success when it doesn't effect morale. IE jr enlisted guys drink cheap beer and whiskey. If I made what a GO makes, I'd probably drink top shelf.

Yeah, I don't have a problem RHIP, either. I spent a bit of time as a flag aide (1 star), a job I actually really enjoyed, and I learned so much. And I saw in the joint arena how the different services acted, the cultures, etc. The Navy has a very discreet and significant caste system that is rooted in over 200 years of history, actually further than that given how much of it was adopted from the British Navy. My admiral would say, "200 years of unimpeded regression."

 

[Topkick]

Yeah, I don't have a problem RHIP, either

There is an old quote NCOs use to inspire their troops to work hard.

"If you don't like it, get promoted."

 

[GOTWA]

Have you ever been to the Pentagon? Have you been down to the fast food court?

The most athletic and in charge group of individuals I've seen in my lifetime.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Some of you can retire from your current branch, and then reenlist and do it all over again in the Air Force!

U.S. Air Force Raises Age Limit For Recruits After Missing 2023 Recruiting Target.

The U.S. Air Force is raising the age limit for recruits to 42 after experiencing its worst recruitment year since 1999. The age limit for recruits wishing to serve as pilots or in front-line roles will remain at 33 years old. Declining enthusiasm and lack of quality among new recruits has become a serious issue for the U.S. military. The National Pulse previously reported that nearly 70 percent of U.S. soldiers are considered overweight or obese.

 

[Box]

Declining enthusiasm and lack of quality notwithstanding - exactly WHAT type of recruit do they think they are going to get if they are going after the midlife crisis demographic?
Just imagine - there is a 41 year old person out there in the workforce. That person is enthusiastic - patriotic - healthy - multi talented - intelligent - composed of a strong moral fiber - and more to the point - already has a fucking job.

Here is a neat factoid - Martin Shkreli is part of that demographic.
So is Britney Spears
...and Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino
...and Jussie Smollett
...nothing like a 42 year old Airman Airperson

 

[Devildoc]

Declining enthusiasm and lack of quality notwithstanding - exactly WHAT type of recruit do they think they are going to get if they are going after the midlife crisis demographic?
Just imagine - there is a 41 year old person out there in the workforce. That person is enthusiastic - patriotic - healthy - multi talented - intelligent - composed of a strong moral fiber - and more to the point - already has a fucking job.

Here is a neat factoid - Martin Shkreli is part of that demographic.
So is Britney Spears
...and Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino
...and Jussie Smollett
...nothing like a 42 year old Airman Airperson

The Navy will take medical and JAG up to...well, I don't remember, but old. I mean, old.

But normal people, yeah, dunno....