ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I give you the true purpose of ArmyWTF and R/USArmy:
Retention and Recruitment Crisis
- Thread starter RackMaster
- Start date
R.Caerbannog
Verified Military
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 2,423
This is how people get their heads chopped off. It sounds like someone at the day care center is also covering things up.
From what I've read and understood there is another child who's been assaulted at the same on post Child Daycare Center. The first child has internal injuries, this was after the parent took them to see an off post doctor. The people/staff at the CDC have video of the events. The police on post didn't have any of this on record when the parent/s contacted them. When parent/s contacted CID apparently they were given the run around.
There is so much WTF going on it's insane.
Keeping things vague. Our preschooler attended school on base.
FAPM and CDC director called my spouse and I in for a meeting. Stated no one was hurt, but an urgent decision had to made that day. Okay. I tried to push up the meeting, they wouldn't meet even an hour earlier.
FAPM started the meeting saying it was not to be recorded. Okay. We're not army, different branch here for a joint forces thing.
FAPM started by stating the above facts, but the person who did this was under the age of culpability. So good news, no crime has been committed! Therefore there's no police report.
They would not tell us how these events were "caught" other than video existed of it. They would not turn over the video to CID when pressed.
FAPM stated it might be a good idea to get a regular check up by the pediatrician on base, but no forensic interview or forensic physical was required because again (!) No crime has occurred. That it would likely be traumatic to our child. I said fuck that out loud, and that the base conic would not be touching our kid. We switched to select during open enrollment anyway.
FAPM & CDC director explained the delay in notifying us was due to coming up with a safety plan: the truely responsible party was a piece of furniture that partially obscured the view of the teacher. It had been properly reprimanded by being moved. They also decided to move our son to the other side of the classroom.
The "exhibiting child" was not removed from the CDC. The CDC director said they would still have some shared activities together.
I asked how she could possibly say our son wasn't internally injured? We argued.
FAPM didn't hand us a damn thing. I asked where are the papers? You're supposed to be handing us an entire folder right now. FAPM stated "people would call us". And that if no one called us in 24hrs, then to reach out directly to her, and she'd "nudge them".
She gave us no one to follow up with other than her, and also, didn't even give us her office # or card.
I said fuck that and drove our kid to closest children's hospital. A forensic exam revealed a lot more.
We are unsure who's command we were under in our branch for this deployment. It took a considerable amount of time. we were busy addressing medical need. Our son is in fact injured internally. He's also clearly traumatized and freaking out. We're obviously out of childcare and drowning. Full blown crisis.
I discovered; -FAPM notified our command but did not tell them any details. Not our names or contact info, nor any details. Simply stated there was an instance of PBS involving a child of that branch/command. -did the same thing for our jag -did the same thing for CID -didnt notify cps
Facts: -CDC & FAPM delayed notifying us by 30 hrs. So there were 3-4 (which is it?) events, a total of 78hrs prior first event. Maybe? They would not give exact dates, duration, or times. -dna is not really collectable beyond 24hrs for the kit. Technically possible at 72 hrs, but diminishing returns. -CDC didn't create an incident report form. We've hounded them. They will not provide one. -FAPM did not notify garrison police -CID argued with us for hours. Wouldn't take a report or statement from us, nor open an investigation into negligence mm behalf of staff. Would not view or retain footage. -I sent an email to the garrison commander. Initially they called, sounded cooperative but hands off. Kept directing us back to FAPM and CID. Then they stopped responding. Straight to voicemail, everything goes unresponded.
I finally tracked down each person FAPM notified. Verified in writing if protocol required 24hrs to notify, she waited 23hrs and 47 minutes. I forced a CID to open an investigation by notifying CPS through the Children's hospital.
Good news, they found another child vic. Bad news, we've been shut out of everything.
They also went on the offensive. Garrison commander banned me from CDC property under punishment of 6 months in prison. CDC director is stating I threatened the staff. I most certainly did not. I went in and asked for the incident report. They told me no and to leave, I complied immediately although I was pissed. No threatening movements. GPS shows I was on base for all of 9 minutes. I also popped into the exchange during that time to grab a soda, have receipt.
Our child is making repeated statements of adult involvement. But he's also 4. I've read Miller vs. United States. His testimony would be "unreliable".
I have a 1 degree connection to the military desk at CNN. A put out feelers, there's a couple news outlets interested but only if our identity is revealed. Spouse would have to do it.
Im realistic. I know we're not getting justice. I've read DoDI 6400.01, 608-18. If we go to media I can see the protocol requiring to kick it up outside the chain of command and automatically trigger a whole lot of scrutiny.
What would you do?
Inspector general has done nothing, Congressional complaint was not responded to.
FAPM and CDC director called my spouse and I in for a meeting. Stated no one was hurt, but an urgent decision had to made that day. Okay. I tried to push up the meeting, they wouldn't meet even an hour earlier.
FAPM started the meeting saying it was not to be recorded. Okay. We're not army, different branch here for a joint forces thing.
FAPM started by stating the above facts, but the person who did this was under the age of culpability. So good news, no crime has been committed! Therefore there's no police report.
They would not tell us how these events were "caught" other than video existed of it. They would not turn over the video to CID when pressed.
FAPM stated it might be a good idea to get a regular check up by the pediatrician on base, but no forensic interview or forensic physical was required because again (!) No crime has occurred. That it would likely be traumatic to our child. I said fuck that out loud, and that the base conic would not be touching our kid. We switched to select during open enrollment anyway.
FAPM & CDC director explained the delay in notifying us was due to coming up with a safety plan: the truely responsible party was a piece of furniture that partially obscured the view of the teacher. It had been properly reprimanded by being moved. They also decided to move our son to the other side of the classroom.
The "exhibiting child" was not removed from the CDC. The CDC director said they would still have some shared activities together.
I asked how she could possibly say our son wasn't internally injured? We argued.
FAPM didn't hand us a damn thing. I asked where are the papers? You're supposed to be handing us an entire folder right now. FAPM stated "people would call us". And that if no one called us in 24hrs, then to reach out directly to her, and she'd "nudge them".
She gave us no one to follow up with other than her, and also, didn't even give us her office # or card.
I said fuck that and drove our kid to closest children's hospital. A forensic exam revealed a lot more.
We are unsure who's command we were under in our branch for this deployment. It took a considerable amount of time. we were busy addressing medical need. Our son is in fact injured internally. He's also clearly traumatized and freaking out. We're obviously out of childcare and drowning. Full blown crisis.
I discovered; -FAPM notified our command but did not tell them any details. Not our names or contact info, nor any details. Simply stated there was an instance of PBS involving a child of that branch/command. -did the same thing for our jag -did the same thing for CID -didnt notify cps
Facts: -CDC & FAPM delayed notifying us by 30 hrs. So there were 3-4 (which is it?) events, a total of 78hrs prior first event. Maybe? They would not give exact dates, duration, or times. -dna is not really collectable beyond 24hrs for the kit. Technically possible at 72 hrs, but diminishing returns. -CDC didn't create an incident report form. We've hounded them. They will not provide one. -FAPM did not notify garrison police -CID argued with us for hours. Wouldn't take a report or statement from us, nor open an investigation into negligence mm behalf of staff. Would not view or retain footage. -I sent an email to the garrison commander. Initially they called, sounded cooperative but hands off. Kept directing us back to FAPM and CID. Then they stopped responding. Straight to voicemail, everything goes unresponded.
I finally tracked down each person FAPM notified. Verified in writing if protocol required 24hrs to notify, she waited 23hrs and 47 minutes. I forced a CID to open an investigation by notifying CPS through the Children's hospital.
Good news, they found another child vic. Bad news, we've been shut out of everything.
They also went on the offensive. Garrison commander banned me from CDC property under punishment of 6 months in prison. CDC director is stating I threatened the staff. I most certainly did not. I went in and asked for the incident report. They told me no and to leave, I complied immediately although I was pissed. No threatening movements. GPS shows I was on base for all of 9 minutes. I also popped into the exchange during that time to grab a soda, have receipt.
Our child is making repeated statements of adult involvement. But he's also 4. I've read Miller vs. United States. His testimony would be "unreliable".
I have a 1 degree connection to the military desk at CNN. A put out feelers, there's a couple news outlets interested but only if our identity is revealed. Spouse would have to do it.
Im realistic. I know we're not getting justice. I've read DoDI 6400.01, 608-18. If we go to media I can see the protocol requiring to kick it up outside the chain of command and automatically trigger a whole lot of scrutiny.
What would you do?
Inspector general has done nothing, Congressional complaint was not responded to.
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Devildoc
Verified Military
Kinda related to the topic and definitely related to what's going on with the RN:
Seeking 75 ships ready for combat, Navy turns to new readiness orgs
The Navy wants 75 mission capable ships and crews ready to go at any time, but we have "in the low 50s."
Seeking 75 ships ready for combat, Navy turns to new readiness orgs
The Navy wants 75 mission capable ships and crews ready to go at any time, but we have "in the low 50s."
A little misleading.
How many ships are deployed, and how many are home?
They want 75 of the home based ships ready to roll.
Devildoc
Verified Military
We would be very hard pressed to get 75 boats fully crewed out to sea.
A quick look at Wikipedia has us with 74 DDGs, 13 (maybe fewer) CGs, 11 carriers, and 24 LCSs. The "gator navy" is roughly 31 total. 75 is just under 50% of those numbers and the LCSs are garbage.
We're fighting Cold War needs with a Clinton budget. Even if we could put 75 to sea today, we wouldn't have that number in 6-8 weeks, if not less.
I was going to make a comment, but frigate.
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Devildoc
Verified Military
My bro-in-law was in the navy, but not for long. He college roommates and fellow ROTC middy is now CO of a fast attack sub; another just finished up squadron CO tour in a P8 squadron. The stories they tell. The sub guy said his boats never stood to sea 100% manned and 100% on maintenance schedule. Cutting corners on training and maintenance in order to be deployable. Sailors and officers not hitting required schools because they are needed for deployment.
LOL.
Military.com had an article where white recruits dropped from 56% to 44% and that's why recruiting is failing.
They then blamed conservative politicians, never once mentioning die, vaccine, or demonizing those potential recruits.
Military.com had an article where white recruits dropped from 56% to 44% and that's why recruiting is failing.
They then blamed conservative politicians, never once mentioning die, vaccine, or demonizing those potential recruits.
Box
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,783
War in Ukraine
War in the middle east
POTUS doesnt even know where his SECDEF is at on any given day
and yet None of them can figure out why there is a recruiting and retention problem
I'm not sure we could gather 75 credible jelly beans without causing a dumpster fire
War in the middle east
POTUS doesnt even know where his SECDEF is at on any given day
and yet None of them can figure out why there is a recruiting and retention problem
I'm not sure we could gather 75 credible jelly beans without causing a dumpster fire
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Today an Army Captain is dead because of a policy by the 18th Airborne Corps CG. At Fort Bragg (not Liberty, I'm not into that nonsense) you immediately have your driving privileges revokes if you go 10MPH over the speed limit.
Fort Liberty soldier killed in Fayetteville crash while riding e-bike
Some speeders are trying to avoid punishment. Here's what Fort Liberty is doing about it.
We wont see accountability of the chain of command at 18th Airborne Corps, but I hope that several people have nightmares until the end of time.
Additionally, I have a bike, I'd to be able to ride my bike to Ft Bliss when I lived there. But there was no true cycling infrastructure for me to get my the brigade footprint I was in so could never do that. As we know, most post gates look more like highways than they do gates. That isn't to say this young officer died at a gate, he didn't, he died on his way home after he was off post.
Fort Liberty soldier killed in Fayetteville crash while riding e-bike
Some speeders are trying to avoid punishment. Here's what Fort Liberty is doing about it.
We wont see accountability of the chain of command at 18th Airborne Corps, but I hope that several people have nightmares until the end of time.
Additionally, I have a bike, I'd to be able to ride my bike to Ft Bliss when I lived there. But there was no true cycling infrastructure for me to get my the brigade footprint I was in so could never do that. As we know, most post gates look more like highways than they do gates. That isn't to say this young officer died at a gate, he didn't, he died on his way home after he was off post.
The link you posted said 15 mph.
Sucks to be him, but most states have laws against speeding, and often take your license as punishment.
To this day, I do not speed on base/post etc.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I once sped on Ft Knox. I was driving to pick up my XO who got a flat. The road on the east side of the tracks was 35MPH and the road on the west side of the tracks was 25MPH and residential. Unfortunately I got a ticket and my name went on the blotter. Had to write a 5 page essay on why that was wrong and it was due the next day.
Never sped on a post again. In fact I always went slow. But the point is don't revoke peoples driving privileges for a first offense [for speeding] or they can end up dead. DUI/DWI? Well different ball game.
I think they’re right. Conservatives ARE telling people not to join the military. Conservative white men make up the largest single demographic in the military, so it’s natural that their numbers would fall, and recruiting overall would drop.
However, the reasons you identified are the reasons conservatives are telling people not to join, which land squarely at the feet of the left.
The left sees fewer white people in anything as a win, some them this is a feature, not a bug.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
The Services are hyper reliant on poor people to sign up. The rural martial class has consistently been denomized for ten years. Make no mistake we have a warrior caste. Previously there were elites who sent their sons to West Point or a upper echelon school that had ROTC. Sometimes these people would become generals (see George Patton) probably others that are more recent. But daddy Bezos kids ain't ever joining and if anything they spit on us.
But poor people. The Army is either one of the most diverse places I've ever been or the least. How do you measure diversity? Every single person in the two platoons I led grew up poor. Some dirt poor, some less poor. But poor was a common experience. If poor people don't want their kids in the Service that tells you a lot about conditions and politics. Remember, Lloyd just screamed down our throats about extremism.
But the only extremist shit in the service right now is the DEI shit. But no one is grouping DEI there.
But poor people. The Army is either one of the most diverse places I've ever been or the least. How do you measure diversity? Every single person in the two platoons I led grew up poor. Some dirt poor, some less poor. But poor was a common experience. If poor people don't want their kids in the Service that tells you a lot about conditions and politics. Remember, Lloyd just screamed down our throats about extremism.
But the only extremist shit in the service right now is the DEI shit. But no one is grouping DEI there.
It has been a while since I looked at the stats, but I think most people in the military, at least in the Army, actually come from the middle class. This is partially because it’s kind of hard to join the military, and if you are so impoverished that you don’t have access to decent nutrition and decent education, for example, you probably won’t make the minimums to join. It might be the lower middle class, but still the middle class.
I would hypothesize that the top economic decile will probably be about the same as the lowest in terms of joining up. Some people from extremely wealthy families still join the military, if for nothing other to boost their political careers. They don't stay long, and they don't do much while they're in, but they're there. Many people from the poorest deciles will never meet the recruiting gates to join in the first place.
I'll see if I can find the data. I could be wrong.
Edited to add:
Council on Foreign Relations:
"Most members of the military come from middle-class neighborhoods. The middle three quintiles for household income were overrepresented among enlisted recruits, and the top and bottom quintiles were underrepresented."
"We find that recruits score higher than the civilian population on cognitive skill tests, and come from households with above average median parental income and wealth. Moreover, both the lowest and highest parental income categories are under-represented. Higher skill test scores increase enlistment rates from lower- and middle-income families while decreasing them for high income families. The over-representation of minorities in the military has declined in recent decades. Non-Hispanic White casualties are now over-represented in Iraq and Afghanistan."
https://www.ifn.se/wfiles/wp/wp965.pdf
"With funding from the Marguerite Casey Foundation, Washington State University Associate Professor Alair MacLean produced a report about trends in military service by race/ethnicity and class that sought to determine whether the men who served during the recent wars came disproportionately from minority and low-income families. In brief, Dr. MacLean found no evidence that the poor or minorities had been enlisting disproportionately during the recent wars. However, she did find evidence that individuals from families at the top of the income distribution were less likely than their peers to enlist in the years immediately following high school, suggesting a de facto “wealth exemption.”
Class, Race/Ethnicity, and Military Service in the Recent Wars | West Coast Poverty Center
I would hypothesize that the top economic decile will probably be about the same as the lowest in terms of joining up. Some people from extremely wealthy families still join the military, if for nothing other to boost their political careers. They don't stay long, and they don't do much while they're in, but they're there. Many people from the poorest deciles will never meet the recruiting gates to join in the first place.
I'll see if I can find the data. I could be wrong.
Edited to add:
Council on Foreign Relations:
"Most members of the military come from middle-class neighborhoods. The middle three quintiles for household income were overrepresented among enlisted recruits, and the top and bottom quintiles were underrepresented."
"We find that recruits score higher than the civilian population on cognitive skill tests, and come from households with above average median parental income and wealth. Moreover, both the lowest and highest parental income categories are under-represented. Higher skill test scores increase enlistment rates from lower- and middle-income families while decreasing them for high income families. The over-representation of minorities in the military has declined in recent decades. Non-Hispanic White casualties are now over-represented in Iraq and Afghanistan."
https://www.ifn.se/wfiles/wp/wp965.pdf
"With funding from the Marguerite Casey Foundation, Washington State University Associate Professor Alair MacLean produced a report about trends in military service by race/ethnicity and class that sought to determine whether the men who served during the recent wars came disproportionately from minority and low-income families. In brief, Dr. MacLean found no evidence that the poor or minorities had been enlisting disproportionately during the recent wars. However, she did find evidence that individuals from families at the top of the income distribution were less likely than their peers to enlist in the years immediately following high school, suggesting a de facto “wealth exemption.”
Class, Race/Ethnicity, and Military Service in the Recent Wars | West Coast Poverty Center
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Topkick
Verified Military
I didn't have the same experience. There certainly were poor kids in my platoons, but there were also rich kids. It probably balanced itself out. Many had one thing in common though, they were troubled and trying to find some direction or purpose.
