Syria Gas Attack- What Now?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...by-Assad-over-any-US-strikes-warns-Putin.html

Russia would help Syria respond to any military intervention by the US over chemical weapons attacks, Vladimir Putin has warned.

The Russian president said his country would stand with the Assad regime in Syria if the US launches airstrikes.

The apparent threat came as the G20 summit ended with a public split, 11 of its members issuing a statement hinting at the need for US action against the Assad regime of its alleged use of chemical weapons.

Russia already supplies military aid to Syria, but the hint of more Russian backing in the event of a confrontation with the US sent jitters through financial markets worldwide.

Mr Putin also mocked Western leaders like US President Barack Obama considering intervening in Syria, suggesting that the majority of their electorates opposed any military action - including Prime Minister David Cameron for failing to persuade the Commons to back British involvement.
 
I wonder what the WWIII campaign medal will look like?
I don't like the idea of looking weak in front of the Russians or Chinese, and I'm confident in our military's ability to handle each of those nations respective armed forces, I'm not that keen on starting a war over the likes of Syria. It's like getting into a bar fight over a fat girl on behalf of someone who isn't even your friend. I really hope we don't get into this for the sake of a CIVIL WAR that has had no effect on our nation.
 
I don't like the idea of looking weak in front of the Russians or Chinese, and I'm confident in our military's ability to handle each of those nations respective armed forces,

You are fooling yourself.
 
I don't like the idea of looking weak in front of the Russians or Chinese, and I'm confident in our military's ability to handle each of those nations respective armed forces, .

Are you in the military? Pretty ballsy to say sure we can handle it when you wouldn't be the one fighting it out with a first world military. CAS falling both ways sure would change our superiority really quick.
You are fooling yourself.

Agreed
 
You are fooling yourself.
Are you in the military? Pretty ballsy to say sure we can handle it when you wouldn't be the one fighting it out with a first world military. CAS falling both ways sure would change our superiority really quick.


Agreed

You don't believe our Navy and Air Force are better equipped and prepared than the Chinese and Russians? And yore right I'm not in the service now and I wouldn't be in harms way. Which is why I don't want anyone else going to fight over that part of the world. My statement was out of respect for everyone on here.
 
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You don't believe our Navy and Air Force are better equipped and prepared than the Chinese and Russians? And yore right I'm not in the service now and I wouldn't be in harms way. Which is why I don't want anyone else going to fight because of Syria.

I prefer facts over beliefs.
 
I prefer facts over beliefs.
Well what facts lead you to believe we wouldn't win against the Russians or Chinese? I realize it would be extremely costly and we would have huge numbers of casualties, I'm just surprised to hear this assessment coming from you(someone more in the know than I am).
 
You don't believe our Navy and Air Force are better equipped and prepared than the Chinese and Russians? And yore right I'm not in the service now and I wouldn't be in harms way. Which is why I don't want anyone else going to fight over that part of the world. My statement was out of respect for everyone on here.

-This country's defense for a ground invasion is negligible at best. Even in Ranger Batt we didn't have open access to ammunition nor could we get our weapons unless the arms room was open. This isn't in the movies where troops can rally within a few hours.
-We win wars because of air superiority against 3rd world sand monkeys. Even on the ground everybody uses CAS to kill the bad guys.
- Our pilots I'm pretty sure haven't been in an aerial dog fight against an enemy since Vietnam

You are so damn delusional to think we'd brush off a war with China and Russia like it's Grenada in 83. Holy shit. These are advanced militaries we'd be facing. When's the last time we did that? Germany in WWII?
 
You have partisan political fighting in DC and the Chinese and Russians are trying to take advantage of that and trying to elevate their nations importance on the world stage. I think people are putting a little too much importance on Syria if you think either one of those nations are going to go to war with the US over Syria.

Say for a second we attack Syria and then either the Chinese or Russian's attack us. After we sink their ships they sent then what? Do you think we are going to nuclear war with either of them over Syria? Outside of nuclear attack, how are either of those nations going to take the fight to us after a quick naval battle in the Med? If they did attack us in the Med that will quickly bring in the Brits and Nato to our side.

Not to mention that China and Russia have shared borders and are more worried about each other than they are with us. Neither one would want to battle with us out of fear of what the other would do when they were otherwise engaged. The Russian and Chinese are no where near allies.

This is nothing more than a show of strength exercise for either nation. Yes those nations have a real military and with real air power but there is also 1000's of miles of oceans to cross to come and fight use and both of those nations still have 1000's of miles of borders at home that need to be protected. They understand the difficulties and the cost associated if they want to do battle and do you think they are going to pay those costs over Syria?
 
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-This country's defense for a ground invasion is negligible at best. Even in Ranger Batt we didn't have open access to ammunition nor could we get our weapons unless the arms room was open. This isn't in the movies where troops can rally within a few hours.
-We win wars because of air superiority against 3rd world sand monkeys. Even on the ground everybody uses CAS to kill the bad guys.
- Our pilots I'm pretty sure haven't been in an aerial dog fight against an enemy since Vietnam

You are so damn delusional to think we'd brush off a war with China and Russia like it's Grenada in 83. Holy shit. These are advanced militaries we'd be facing. When's the last time we did that? Germany in WWII?
-Does China or Russia even have the ability to even launch such an attack? Everything I have read puts China years away from being able to move troops like the USAF can. And how likely is such an "invasion" scenario? Would it not be nearly impossible to coordinate and execute a surprise attack where the DoD could not shift gears to homeland defense focus?
- When was the last time a Russian or Chinese pilot engaged in air to air combat? Probably longer than the USAF and USN- the First Gulf War and the Balkans (as late as 1999) saw Dogfights, with the U.S. only losing one plane (during Desert Storm). I can't say U.S. pilots are any better off than their Russian or Chinese counterparts, but they certainly can't be at a disadvantage.
- Everyone seems to think my statement regarding a U.S. victory is some sort fantasy on my part, where in it is an easy victory with no losses (Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm)- I understand how advanced and well trained/equipped the Chinese and Russians are. I get that this would be a "step up" from what we've become accustomed to since Vietnam/Korea/WWII. Hence my stern opposition to intervention and escalation. This whole situation is not worth starting WWIII over.
 
You have partisan political fighting in DC and the Chinese and Russians are trying to take advantage of that and trying to elevate their nations importance on the world stage. I think people are putting a little too much importance on Syria if you think either one of those nations are going to go to war with the US over Syria.

Say for a second we attack Syria and then either the Chinese or Russian's attack us. If that happens, it won't be about Syria anymore. After we sink their ships they sent then what? Then put on your boots, were all going to war. Do you think we are going to nuclear war with either of them over Syria? Hopefully it wouldn't turn into a nuclear war, but either way it wouldn't be about syria at that point. Outside of nuclear attack, how are either of those nations going to take the fight to us after a quick naval battle in the Med? Alaska is a stones throw away from Russia, and China would probably start with Hawaii/California. If they did attack us in the Med that will quickly bring in the Brits and Nato to our side. The Brits, yes. NATO? You have more confidence in them than I do.

Not to mention that China and Russia have shared borders and are more worried about each other than they are with us. Neither one would want to battle with us out of fear of what the other would do when they were otherwise engaged. The Russian and Chinese are no where near allies.

This is nothing more than a show of strength exercise for either nation.
 
Well what facts lead you to believe we wouldn't win against the Russians or Chinese? I realize it would be extremely costly and we would have huge numbers of casualties, I'm just surprised to hear this assessment coming from you(someone more in the know than I am).

How about Russia and China?

-Does China or Russia even have the ability to even launch such an attack? Everything I have read puts China years away from being able to move troops like the USAF can. And how likely is such an "invasion" scenario? Would it not be nearly impossible to coordinate and execute a surprise attack where the DoD could not shift gears to homeland defense focus?.

They don't need to invade, they can assist the Syrians with Air Defense/Early Warning. Cyber Attacks, and in case you forgot, China owns most of our debt and could collapse our banking system in a few short days.


- When was the last time a Russian or Chinese pilot engaged in air to air combat? Probably longer than the USAF and USN- the First Gulf War and the Balkans (as late as 1999) saw Dogfights, with the U.S. only losing one plane (during Desert Storm). I can't say U.S. pilots are any better off than their Russian or Chinese counterparts, but they certainly can't be at a disadvantage.
- Everyone seems to think my statement regarding a U.S. victory is some sort fantasy on my part, where in it is an easy victory with no losses (Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm)- I understand how advanced and well trained/equipped the Chinese and Russians are. I get that this would be a "step up" from what we've become accustomed to since Vietnam/Korea/WWII. Hence my stern opposition to intervention and escalation. This whole situation is not worth starting WWIII over.
When was the last time US forces fought their way into someone else's airspace? SE Asia?

You have partisan political fighting in DC and the Chinese and Russians are trying to take advantage of that and trying to elevate their nations importance on the world stage. I think people are putting a little too much importance on Syria if you think either one of those nations are going to go to war with the US over Syria.

Mostly agree, except Putin drew his own redline and could be forced to do something or lose face.

Say for a second we attack Syria and then either the Chinese or Russian's attack us. After we sink their ships they sent then what? Do you think we are going to nuclear war with either of them over Syria? Outside of nuclear attack, how are either of those nations going to take the fight to us after a quick naval battle in the Med? If they did attack us in the Med that will quickly bring in the Brits and Nato to our side.

Again, Cyber; don't forget the Chinese are still pissed over that Embassy "Mistake" during Kosovo.

Not to mention that China and Russia have shared borders and are more worried about each other than they are with us. Neither one would want to battle with us out of fear of what the other would do when they were otherwise engaged. The Russian and Chinese are no where near allies.

This is nothing more than a show of strength exercise for either nation. Yes those nations have a real military and with real air power but there is also 1000's of miles of oceans to cross to come and fight use and both of those nations still have 1000's of miles of borders at home that need to be protected. They understand the difficulties and the cost associated if they want to do battle and do you think they are going to pay those costs over Syria?

Essentially agree, they might inflict a couple of homeland attacks to save face, but again a decent cyber attack on infrastructure could do more damage then a major sea battle.
 
There is a lot of important signalling going on right now. Russia and China are burnishing their international image at our expense by sending warships to the area. This actually increases the chances of conflict, because now we run the risk of looking extremely weak if we buckle now. We should never have been in this position to begin with. But now here we are, if greed, diffidence, and glory/reputation are the three main things that drive men to war, then at least two of those are in play at this point. That's BAD.

Personally, I don't want to fight Russia and China at the same time. I don't want to fight Russia OR China. Not over freakin' Syria. If we were going to fight Russia over a country that wasn't directly tied to our vital national interests, we should have gone all-in when they invaded Georgia. At Georgia was stable and pro-Western. Syria is neither, and is unlikely to be anytime soon.

So I've been looking through the things that Secretary Kerry has been saying about Syria, and I'm even more concerned now than I was before. In this article, Sec. Kerry states that "up to" 20% of the "oppositionists" are bad guys. OK fine, that sounds like a lot to me, but let's look at the math. 100,000 rebels, 20% of 100,000 is... 20,000. Twenty thousand bad guys, which means radical Islamist jihadists, the same people we're fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and any number of other countries around the world. Given that the "bad guys" seem to be the best organized, best equipped, and most importantly, the most heavily externally-supported element out there, does it not intuitively follow that when/if the Assad regime falls that the entire country will be taken over by a radical fringe? Is that good, or bad for America's long term interests?

And in this article, Sen. Kerry is trying to convince the world that us shooting missiles at and dropping bombs on Syria doesn't make it a war. I think I said it before but it bears repeating: we might not thing we're at war with Syria after we attack them, but they will certainly be at war with us. Moreover, when he got backed into a corner with his ridiculous comments, he tried to put to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who wasn't having it. Well played, GEN Dempsey.


"Later, a frustrated Kerry revealed the real logic behind his position: public opinion. He noted that no Americans wanted to go to war with Syria and insisted the White House was of the same mind. “We don’t want to go to war in Syria either!” he exclaimed. “It’s not what we’re here to ask. The President is not asking you to go to war…He’s simply saying we need to take an action that can degrade the capacity of a man who has been willing to kill his own people by breaking a nearly hundred year-old prohibition [against chemical weapons].”

Then, turning to Dempsey, Kerry asked, “General, do you want to speak to that?”

Dempsey responded, “No, not really, Secretary, thank you for offering.” Why? Because General Dempsey knew that was nonsense. When one state attacks another with military force toward a political objective, it is war. The President has ordered warships into the Eastern Mediterranean to employ military force to compel Assad into keeping his chemical arsenal under wraps."
 
Again, Cyber; don't forget the Chinese are still pissed over that Embassy "Mistake" during Kosovo.
Essentially agree, they might inflict a couple of homeland attacks to save face, but again a decent cyber attack on infrastructure could do more damage then a major sea battle.

I have to agree. While we are already in an active cyber war with China, I agree they could actually execute an attack on the infrastructure versus what they are doing today.
 
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