ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Real poltik requires us not to be emotional.
Syria Thread
- Thread starter Devildoc
- Start date
The Kurds are a odd deal. They have no strategic regional value. Outside of some oil resources, they tend to be more thorn in everyone's side then anything else.
They are laying claim to regions within 4 countries, one of those being a NATO member. They are very communist in their ideology and organizing, they have also used terrorism as a means to fight to control their "claimed region" and to retaliate against policing operations.
The up side is they are pro western, and want a modern, educated, civilization. The problem is that nobody in that area wants them around. That is a big problem for us, when trying to stabilize the middle east and get the fuck out of there.
I think it's a shit thing to do, but I don't see how siding with the Kurds, staying there indefinitely, and causing tensions with a NATO ally is worth maintaining a relationship with the Kurds. Bottom line we can't stay there forever and all 4 countries with Kurds, would just assume kill them off vs allow them to form their own nation or autonomous gov/region.
Essentially it's the equivalent of backing a team for the Superbowl, when that team is not even in the playoffs.
$.02
They are laying claim to regions within 4 countries, one of those being a NATO member. They are very communist in their ideology and organizing, they have also used terrorism as a means to fight to control their "claimed region" and to retaliate against policing operations.
The up side is they are pro western, and want a modern, educated, civilization. The problem is that nobody in that area wants them around. That is a big problem for us, when trying to stabilize the middle east and get the fuck out of there.
I think it's a shit thing to do, but I don't see how siding with the Kurds, staying there indefinitely, and causing tensions with a NATO ally is worth maintaining a relationship with the Kurds. Bottom line we can't stay there forever and all 4 countries with Kurds, would just assume kill them off vs allow them to form their own nation or autonomous gov/region.
Essentially it's the equivalent of backing a team for the Superbowl, when that team is not even in the playoffs.
$.02
Kraut783
SOF Support
The West helped create Israel, why not support a Kurdistan.....they have more going for them now than Israel had then.
Brill
SOF Support
Isreal has a right to exist.
Kurds, while they have kick ass scorpion fight, support the PKK. Puts NATO in a tight spot.
Brill
SOF Support
Ha! Say THAT to the chick who’s wearing your maroon beret as she’s riding you.
Too much? Did I overshare? FF where you at????
Brill
SOF Support
Well glad to see you ain't dead.
True story: @devilbones hit me up that he read my work blog on JWICS and remembered I’d been away for a bit.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Agree about Israel...was just a example of another group that no Middle-Eastern country wanted. But Iraqi Kurdistan gained autonomous status in the 1970 agreement with Iraq and re-confirmed as an autonomous entity with Iraq in 2005. It's not like they are a new thing....sure the Syrian fight has increased their land control, and does give them some bargaining chips they can use with Turkey.
Either way, it will be interesting how it shakes out.
Turkey is the big dog in that A/O, they are a NATO member and they do not want a Kurdistan, anywhere. Iraq wants the oil in the north, but the Kurds can deal with the politics of that as long as regional unrest continues. Turkey likely won't try to go into Iraq without our agreement. However, any stability in the region will lead to the Kurds being pushed back into the mountains by Iraq, Iran keeps them there, Syria will eventually retake their ground, especially when Turkey stomps that region out and asserts their own brand of influence.
Kurds don't really have a chance in hell. It's fun to say we used the Kurds or make the argument that we owe them something. The truth is we have done more for their cause then anyone else, we have armed them, equipped, trained and advised them. They need airpower to defend themselves, and Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey will never allow that to happen.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Eh? I think the Israelis would beg to differ on that fighting by themselves. Only recently have they had good western support.
Kraut783
SOF Support
my point, Kurds have more going for them now that Israel did in their infancy.
Further back. We treat nations and people like disposable lighters.
Israel had the worldwide Jewish diaspora, a stronger and more-effective nationalist movement, and most importantly, they wanted land that didn't have oil on it.
Ultimately, the Israelis liberated themselves. If the Kurds can do the same, then I'm all about recognizing a Kurdish state. But it's not our responsibility to help them establish one.
As to the notion espoused by others that we "owe" the Kurds something, we don't. The Kurds didn't help us in Iraq, they helped themselves. We did the same. Self-interest is how nations work. I don't think it's in our self-interests to support an independent Kurdistan, one that would probably have to be propped up by Western blood and money.
Don't worry, we won't.
Don't worry, we won't.
The whole question is academic anyway. I opined, from the point of view of someone who has lived and fought alongside foreign soldiers 24/7 that on the human gut level (the only level that I have any experience in), it's not cool to unass the AO an leave them with their pants down around their ankles. I'm speaking soldier to soldier, warrior to warrior, man to man. I don't actually believe that we'd stick around. Because I know there's no danger of us ever doing that.
Point is, politicians don't have to look their foreign counterparts, guys they've been in the shit with, in the eye and tell them, "hey, man, we're bugging out and you're on your own..."
Last edited:
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Shit
Shit
Shit
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/politics/american-convoy-targeted-syria-bombing/index.html
Washington (CNN)ISIS claimed responsibility for a suicide attack targeting a joint US and Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) armored convoy south of the city of Shaddadi, Syria, on Monday, the SITE Intelligence Group reported citing the ISIS-affiliated Amaq News agency.
There were no American casualties in the bombing, Col. Sean Ryan, spokesman of the US-led international coalition, told CNN.
"We can confirm a combined U.S. and Syrian partner force convoy was involved in an apparent VBIED [vehicle-borne improvised explosive device] attack today in Syria. There were no US casualties. We will continue to review the situation and provide updates as appropriate," Ryan said.
Shit
Shit
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/politics/american-convoy-targeted-syria-bombing/index.html
Washington (CNN)ISIS claimed responsibility for a suicide attack targeting a joint US and Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) armored convoy south of the city of Shaddadi, Syria, on Monday, the SITE Intelligence Group reported citing the ISIS-affiliated Amaq News agency.
There were no American casualties in the bombing, Col. Sean Ryan, spokesman of the US-led international coalition, told CNN.
"We can confirm a combined U.S. and Syrian partner force convoy was involved in an apparent VBIED [vehicle-borne improvised explosive device] attack today in Syria. There were no US casualties. We will continue to review the situation and provide updates as appropriate," Ryan said.
Maybe ISIS isn't quite ready to agree that it's been "defeated."
I like that. It’s a broad, overarching joke that multiple focus groups can really dig in and get offended by.
I haven’t been this outraged since my last high school Klan meeting was interrupted by a Native American Rush fanatic at a pro life rally wearing a hat popularized by the biggest Game of Thrones enthusiast America has ever seen.
Devildoc
Verified Military
