The Trump Presidency

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I believe this story word-for-word.

Is former Apprentice star Omarosa next to be fired? | Daily Mail Online

But The Daily Beast is reporting that she has instead earned a reputation among her West Wing colleagues as someone who has created unnecessary distractions for her boss by promoting 'gossipy' stories about palace intrigue, Republicans in Congress, and media personalities.

'When Gen. Kelly is talking about clamping down on access to the Oval, she's patient zero,' a source close to the Trump administration said.
 
I thought this NYT piece was interesting (it's quoted in @Ooh-Rah's post), credible, and terrifying (though exactly what anyone who watches the President would expect): Forceful Chief of Staff Grates on Trump, and the Feeling Is Mutual

It seems to me an interesting - but not rewarding - ethical case senior military officers have made for themselves in the administration. They have lent President Trump their credibility and competence - bolstering his credibility across the board and giving him some rare functional enclaves inside the executive. However, the President's character has proven to be almost impossible to influence - so these men's influence is almost totally limited to decreasing the damage the President does versus actually progressing policies.

EDIT: Also meant to mention I still wonder at their argument about 'duty' to serve. I definitely get we don't choose our boss in the military and it's a huge part of our job to help make them successful regardless of our feelings about them. But, that's in a military or national security context - where the policies, procedures, duties, and responsibilities they are executing are in line with organizational objectives. In a political context the President is deciding all those things himself. No one would argue you need to support a boss in the military who is doing unethical or immoral things - and there's a strong argument to say you should oppose them when they're doing stupid things. So, I think it's very difficult for these senior military leaders to argue at some point - as I know at least GEN Mattis has done - that they are just 'serving the best they can as is their duty.' It is more accurate to say, IMO, they have chosen to support the policies, views, and ultimately character of the President. I think more and more evidence is stacking up that's going to lead them to actively support a bunch of stuff they might not like being associated with. Also, if you are making the argument you're serving out of a sense of duty and not 'deciding' policies themselves - thus limiting your agency and culpability - I think articles like this show they're doing a bad job. If you're really going to serve as a subordinate - in a military sense - I think the onus is on you to execute your bosses intent, as long as it is moral, legal, and ethical - and resign if you cannot. I don't think a part of that ethic is to slow-roll, undercut, or fail to comply. I mentioned before it makes me very uncomfortable to see senior military leaders not acknowledge and execute Presidential guidance - even when it's fucked up, stupid, and poorly done. Civilian control of the military is a core tenet of the republic. It seems to me these senior military leaders want to have it both ways - they want to be able to manipulate in order to influence but they don't want to face any of the consequences for poor behavior because 'they're just doing their duty.' I don't think that's an argument that's going to hold up over time.

I think history - even without a long reflection time - is going to be very unkind to these senior military leaders and I wonder at the impact on the flag officer ranks after this administration. I think GEN Kelly could have had a sympathetic biographer if he had just been the DHS head during the administration - but now that is impossible. Each of these senior military leaders have fashioned themselves into active enabler of the President - tying themselves intimately to his personal and professional flaws. Currently they're all getting a lot of credit for being the 'sane' and 'reasonable' members of the cabinet. But, as those immediate crises pass that goodwill is going to evaporate IMO.

I think LTG McMaster's 'Dereliction of Duty' treatise that got him so much praise as a more junior officer is going to end up as a massive monument to irony.
 
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I think history - even without a long reflection time - is going to be very unkind to these senior military leaders

Not sure I agree. The media, by and large, has been pretty complimentary and sympathetic to General Kelly, praising his administrative and organizational leadership while working for a man who arguably is the antithesis of restraint and discipline. I honestly think he is respected by all but a few, perhaps grudgingly, but respected all the same. I also think Kelly & Trump will be parting ways before the year is up.
 
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Not sure I agree. The media, by and large, has been pretty complimentary and sympathetic to General Kelly, praising his administrative and organizational leadership while working for a man who arguably is the antithesis of restraint and discipline. I honestly think he is respected by all but a few, perhaps grudgingly, but respected all the same. I also think Kelly & Trump will be parting ways before the year is up.

I think all the 'Generals' working for President Trump have received mostly positive media (with the notable exception of Brietbart affiliates and anyone who will listen to Roger Stone). What I am saying is that is a reflection of the chaos and dearth of decency that is the administration - that over time those guys have put their reputation and legacy into a dumpster fire. Like any prediction time will tell. I also thought no way President Trump would get elected so shows how well my predictions pan out.
 
Everyone has a duty to serve, most politicians do not do their duty. Hell, I'd say that a lot of our senior officers are not doing their duty with the amount if assholes getting caught up in sex scandals. If the POTUS asks you to serve, you roger up, because of the office. Not because of the man sitting in the chair. Full Stop. Duty is a very high standard to meet, I've seen a way too many not do their duty these days than have.
 
Everyone has a duty to serve, most politicians do not do their duty. Hell, I'd say that a lot of our senior officers are not doing their duty with the amount if assholes getting caught up in sex scandals. If the POTUS asks you to serve, you roger up, because of the office. Not because of the man sitting in the chair. Full Stop. Duty is a very high standard to meet, I've seen a way too many not do their duty these days than have.
Hard disagree. Your duty is to the people. Part of that duty is recognizing if you will be unable to discharge that duty to the best of your ability because of your feelings toward that leader. Otherwise you (general not specific) become a mindless automaton.

Simply put, if you are ordered to do something (legal and moral) then you do it because it is your duty whether you like it or not. If the POTUS asks you..aka requests... you do something then it becomes a request and subject to refusal. Splitting hairs maybe, but an important distinction nevertheless. That's why they ask you to serve versus order you to serve. We still have choices to make as to whether to serve or not. You swear an oath to follow the orders of the Chief Executive, not the requests.
 
Being on Trump's cabinet may garner some childish guilt by association, but for a guy like Mattis? The wheels would have to utterly fall off of his character for his reputation to not survive. Intelligent people of any political bent should be able to recognize a man serving his office and country with honor vs. some toady. To quote my man @ke4gde's signature block: You are what you do when it counts.
 
Being on Trump's cabinet may garner some childish guilt by association, but for a guy like Mattis? The wheels would have to utterly fall off of his character for his reputation to not survive. Intelligent people of any political bent should be able to recognize a man serving his office and country with honor vs. some toady. To quote my man @ke4gde's signature block: You are what you do when it counts.

Time will tell, but I don't agree. I think SECDEF Mattis is good at generating memes and positive press coverage - an updated Patraeus in many respects. So far his accomplishments as SECDEF have been to seem like a grown-up next to POTUS, slow-rolling the President's transgender ban, presiding over the same Afghan, Iraq, and Syria strategy/tactics as the last 5 years, and the Navy has been running into a bunch of shit.

Maybe he's got some transformations in the works, maybe the Trump administration is going to turn things around and start accomplishing things, maybe the Trump administration's many accomplishments hidden from MSM consumers like me will leave a legacy of success. But, I strongly doubt it. Maybe this belongs on the SECDEF thread but the more I see of the current SECDEF the more I wonder what all the hero worship is about. I think the sheen is not going to last once this administration ends.
 
So, now we find ourselves in a weird spot with President Trump.

N Korea tested an ICBM ready (if we are to believe the liberally biased news outlets and their trans-friendly nuclear reporting agenda) hydrogen bomb.

This is what you get when you have an immature, emotional dude at the helm. President Trump is stuck with his BS 'fire and fury' posturing, and now he's got about -25 outs.

So I'm guessing it'll go: sternly worded tweet storm, outrage, threats, backpedal, inaction.

Although I hear N Korea is lovely this time of year.
 
So, now we find ourselves in a weird spot with President Trump.

N Korea tested an ICBM ready (if we are to believe the liberally biased news outlets and their trans-friendly nuclear reporting agenda) hydrogen bomb.

This is what you get when you have an immature, emotional dude at the helm. President Trump is stuck with his BS 'fire and fury' posturing, and now he's got about -25 outs.

So I'm guessing it'll go: sternly worded tweet storm, outrage, threats, backpedal, inaction.

Although I hear N Korea is lovely this time of year.

I'm not sure if it's fair to blame President Trump for the development of Nuclear weapons and ICBMs by North Korea - maybe a stronger case for blaming him on why they are doing so much testing and provocation now. I think when you look at the North Korean Nuclear and ICBM program there's a strong case to be made they were going to do it regardless of outside actions - or at least unless the US/West undertook policy changes that are essentially inconceivable.

There's another argument that says President GW Bush is primarily to blame with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq - essentially telling other nations on our shit list that if they wanted to avoid invasion in the future they better have a credible nuclear deterrent. I can see blaming President Trump for failing to deter the North Koreans from their provocative testing and continued development - but in that case the Obama administration is just as guilty.

To me, the question with the Trump administration becomes their ability to handle this escalation and the crises that will follow. President Trump has shown himself to be incapable of governing his emotions, ignorant of even the most basic tenets of diplomacy/policy/fact-based-reasoning, and his administration is about 85% back-biting sycophants working their consulting gigs on the government dime and 10% flag officers trying the reign the process into something resembling sanity (5% just seems to be hotties and people who got lost looking for the champagne room). That dynamic means the potential for misunderstanding, mishandling, escalation, and disaster is huge on the peninsula.

Some people might say it's the 'Nixon strategy' of making people think you're crazy or willing to do the unthinkable (nuclear holocaust) - and that will bring folks to the negotiating table and/or wring concessions from interested parties. It didn't work well for President Nixon - who was making calculated moves with an extremely professional diplomatic corps supporting each step. I find it hard to credit it will somehow be successful with none of that preparation or support staff.

Just my $0.02.
 
To me, the question with the Trump administration becomes their ability to handle this escalation and the crises that will follow. President Trump has shown himself to be incapable of governing his emotions, ignorant of even the most basic tenets of diplomacy/policy/fact-based-reasoning, and his administration is about 85% back-biting sycophants working their consulting gigs on the government dime and 10% flag officers trying the reign the process into something resembling sanity (5% just seems to be hotties and people who got lost looking for the champagne room). That dynamic means the potential for misunderstanding, mishandling, escalation, and disaster is huge on the peninsula.
My point exactly. I am in no way saying President Trump is somehow responsible or allowed N Korea to develop weapons, only that his gross mishandling of the situation is starting to be really apparent.

Tough guy shit talking is best kept to the sports realm and the bar. The fact that our president now has to make good on schoolyard threats backed up with military action or look really weak on an international stage is laughable at best or, as you put it, disastrous at worst.
 
Tough guy shit talking is best kept to the sports realm and the bar. The fact that our president now has to make good on schoolyard threats backed up with military action or look really weak on an international stage is laughable at best or, as you put it, disastrous at worst.

I agree with this but how long before a military option is the only option in North Korea?

That's where I get hung up as we've been heading down this path for a long time. Another conflict is the last thing I want as a citizen but how long can we allow this to continue? Tough guy talk or not.
 
I agree with this but how long before a military option is the only option in North Korea?

That's where I get hung up as we've been heading down this path for a long time. Another conflict is the last thing I want as a citizen but how long can we allow this to continue? Tough guy talk or not.
I hope it's never needed. Sincerely. But up until it's time to no kidding exercise that option, we should all at least pretend that we are trying the diplomatic route.

Which is why I don't think our president should default to "biblical" level threats every time someone does something he doesn't like. Doubling down and saying, "appeasement won't work" gives us one option, and that option isn't palatable.
 
My point exactly. I am in no way saying President Trump is somehow responsible or allowed N Korea to develop weapons, only that his gross mishandling of the situation is starting to be really apparent.

Tough guy shit talking is best kept to the sports realm and the bar. The fact that our president now has to make good on schoolyard threats backed up with military action or look really weak on an international stage is laughable at best or, as you put it, disastrous at worst.

I agree 100%. I also think it's interesting how the discussion in the US - and in the administration - is all about the US and North Korea, with a little China sprinkled in periodically. The ROK is one of our staunchest allies in the region and are the ones that will doing 90% of the fighting (and 95% of the dying) in any conflict on the peninsula - yet they are almost never mentioned.
 
Doubling down and saying, "appeasement won't work" gives us one option, and that option isn't palatable.

To put it mildly. It's not palatable even if NK throws the first punch, and China honors its word to stay on the sidelines. If our President decides we need to strike a first blow, and then China jumps in? Arlington will need to look at expanding, and the civilian populace will become a little more familiar with what the country went through in WW2.
 
Our foreign policy for the last two decades has been a shit show. Adding the current president to the mix is like giving another pound of bacon to a fat guy with clogged arteries.

Good thing we took care of that Axis of Evil and made the world a safer place....
 
I guess President Trump did include South Korea in his comments: Why Trump, After North Korea’s Test, Aimed His Sharpest Fire at the South

It's like a reality-show devoted exclusively to the Dunning-Krueger effect.

Also, a very detailed article in the NYT today with tons of on-the-record examples on how draining the swamp is going: How to Get Rich in Trump’s Washington

I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption in general to imagine a political novice without strong ties to the existing political lobbying structure would have an opportunity to rise above the 'swamp' of special interest pay-to-play. I think this particular candidate should have set off some warning signs - but we are where we are. Still, I find it hard to understand someone who makes the argument the President is presiding over an incredibly corrupt administration.
 
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It's pretty clear the NK is pursuing Nuclear Weapons, they were pursuing it a long time ago and never stopped. Yeah, we've thrown some economic sanctions on them, helped the people starve to the point that their average height is 3in less than those in SK. And yet they're still somehow able to come up with the raw materials for munitions and missiles. So what do we do?
 
Not seeing a lot of objectivity in this North Korea stuff. I'm sure WaPo and NYT are doing their best...:whatever:

Are we supposed to care about it now more than before?

I'm still going off that they have had some viable nuclear capability since before 2013. I hate the problem-set and if I never have to work the issue again I will be happy.
 
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