The Trump Presidency

[Il Duce]

Not seeing a lot of objectivity in this North Korea stuff. I'm sure WaPo and NYT are doing their best...:whatever:

Are we supposed to care about it now more than before?

I'm still going off that they have had some viable nuclear capability since before 2013. I hate the problem-set and if I never have to work the issue again I will be happy.

Multiple tests not only of an increased weapons capability but launchers and ICBMs that can reach the continental United States, coupled with a US administration at the nadir of influence in 50 years upending trade and national security relationships across the globe. I mean, worry about what you want but yes, now is the time to care more than before.

 

[ThunderHorse]

How often did Bush criticize Obama? My memory sucks on this, but I think he did what all Presidents are supposed to do, ride off into the sunset. Please inform me if that recall is incorrect though.

 

[Florida173]

Multiple tests not only of an increased weapons capability but launchers and ICBMs that can reach the continental United States, coupled with a US administration at the nadir of influence in 50 years upending trade and national security relationships across the globe. I mean, worry about what you want but yes, now is the time to care more than before.

Hard disagree. It's going to be resolved by working with the actual NK enabler; regardless of how many people are just now paying attention to this problem. And you're speaking in hyperbole when referring to any supposed damage of trade and national security relationships across the globe. The China trade is directly related to bringing NK back on track.

 

[Il Duce]

Even if you think 'the' enabler (China is not the only trade relationship NK has - just the main one) is the way to solve the problem - an extremely arguable point considering their inability to curb development and testing so far - I don't understand how a person can honestly believe we are making more progress, have more leverage, and are closer to shifting Chinese positions in the current administration or climate.

The facts of our relationships in Asia include the unilateral cancellation of TPP - something two administrations worked on for almost a decade touching the totality of US trade, diplomatic, and national security relationships in the region; the unilateral exit from the Paris agreement, significant talk by the President of a trade war with China, and twitter tirades by the President against South Korea as an appeaser. That's not hyperbole, that's just what has happened. You can believe all those things have been actually increasing our leverage and are about to win us great victories - so many we'll be tired of winning as the President has claimed. I would not hold out too much hope - and that's pretty consistent from experts who have watched the situation for some time - not just those 'suddenly' interested.

 

[Red Flag 1]

Hard disagree. It's going to be resolved by working with the actual NK enabler; regardless of how many people are just now paying attention to this problem. And you're speaking in hyperbole when referring to any supposed damage of trade and national security relationships across the globe. The China trade is directly related to bringing NK back on track.

I generally don't get too involved in political threads. This discussion of N. Korea seems a little more concerning, world wide.

You urging using a NK Enabler, just who would that be? Who has any success in talking down the N. Korean leader to stop his missile and atomic weapons testing program? Just one person who has had success in changing Kim's tack. Who has had success in stopping Kim from promising total destruction of our Nation. I am speaking pretty directly here, no hyperbole.

 

[Florida173]

I generally don't get too involved in political threads. This discussion of N. Korea seems a little more concerning, world wide.

You urging using a NK Enabler, just who would that be? Who has any success in talking down the N. Korean leader to stop his missile and atomic weapons testing program? Just one person who has had success in changing Kim's tack. Who has had success in stopping Kim from promising total destruction of our Nation. I am speaking pretty directly here, no hyperbole.

It's China.. always China. NK is only what it is by what China has allowed.

 

[SpitfireV]

That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.

 

[Red Flag 1]

It's China.. always China. NK is only what it is by what China has allowed.

Today China has agreed with all sanctions President Trump has suggested. That includes sanctions against anyone trading with N Korea. So far Kim has ignored everyone including China. Who do you suggest next? Keep in mind that Kim is threatening to kill you with a bomb, as soon as he possibly can. What peacefull placating move do you think will stop him? The rest of the world is out of answers, I hope you realize that.

 

[RackMaster]

That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.

This I agree with BUT China has the power to cut them off and make things a lot more uncomfortable than it already is in NK. That or take out NK facilities themselves. And ultimately they can step aside and give blessing to those that will destroy their facilities.

 

[SpitfireV]

That's the thing though- they have been cutting them off.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Then how does NK keep producing missiles?

 

[Blizzard]

As Putin said, the North Koreans would rather eat grass than give up their nukes.

 

[RackMaster]

That's the thing though- they have been cutting them off.

They are only now going to cut oil. The machine will stop moving eventually. His people already basically live in the dark.

 

[AWP]

"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." Alfred Pennyworth

 

[SpitfireV]

Then how does NK keep producing missiles?

Black market I'd imagine. They don't *just* trade with China. Remember they're well known for drugs and counterfeit money. If they still had the US press they're supposed to have had they could buy whatever they wanted overseas at nearly no cost to themselves.

They are only now going to cut oil. The machine will stop moving eventually. His people already basically live in the dark.

Yes but as I understand it China always wanted the people suffering (more so than the food shortages) to be the last resort.

 

[RackMaster]

Yes but as I understand it China always wanted the people suffering (more so than the food shortages) to be the last resort.

I'd say we are in a last resort situation.

 

[SpitfireV]

Yes, which is why they're doing it now.

 

[Red Flag 1]

"At the time and manner of our choosing". Beyond that, nothing need be said.

 

[Marauder06]

They are only now going to cut oil. The machine will stop moving eventually. His people already basically live in the dark.

It'll slow down, then either they'll do something 'crazy' again and we'll buy them off by easing sanctions or sending supplies, or it'll turn into a humanitarian disaster which the US will be expected to fix (since we apparently have to solve all of the world's problems), at which time we'll buy them off by easing sanctions or sending supplies.

 

[SpitfireV]

It'll slow down, then either they'll do something 'crazy' again and we'll buy them off by easing sanctions or sending supplies, or it'll turn into a humanitarian disaster which the US will be expected to fix (since we apparently have to solve all of the world's problems), at which time we'll buy them off by easing sanctions or sending supplies.

True but that's the position you guys have willingly put yourselves in for, what, 60 odd years? Though I would argue the major burden would probably be on China with a massive influx of reffos going across the border (since they're such as hell not going south through the DMZ easily).