The Trump Presidency

[DA SWO]

The key word there is peer bud.

Politicians are not peers.

There are enough scientists who question the studies for them to have a spirited peer review; bud.

 

[Marauder06]

That is anthropomorphic. That isn't what I am claiming. I have taken no stance on that issue.

My stance remains: the earth is clearly heating. Should we not attempt to address complications from that?

I hate it when you make me look up words when we're debating ;)

 

[Marauder06]

Climate-related conditions are a major security concern. Famine, drought, flood, hurricane, tsunami, and others can temporary or terminal government weakness, stir unrest, drive migration, increase poverty, and spur military conflict. The Pentagon has recognized this for a long time. And it's smart to do so: the element that has been and will be called in to "do something" with the fallout from these conditions is the US military.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Article from 1922 in the Washington Post...

The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway.
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

This was cited from a news article obtained here:

https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

What happened after this? The great depression. Then what? The little Ice Age of the 1970's. So fishermen went back and saw ICE way further south then 81 deg. In fact the entire 1980's and 2000's ice can be found at that Parallel and south.

Daily Arctic Sea Ice Maps

So there was less ice in 1922 then in 2007....The Earth heats up and it cools down.....Why are we in crisis mode here? This is all I am asking....

 

[TLDR20]

Article from 1922 in the Washington Post...



This was cited from a news article obtained here:

https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

What happened after this? The great depression. Then what? The little Ice Age of the 1970's. So fishermen went back and saw ICE way further south then 81 deg. In fact the entire 1980's and 2000's ice can be found at that Parallel and south.

Daily Arctic Sea Ice Maps

So there was less ice in 1922 then in 2007....The Earth heats up and it cools down.....Why are we in crisis mode here? This is all I am asking....

They didn't have satellite data in 1922 to actually compare the difference.

 

[Polar Bear]

But we are warming? Or is it cooling? Did god create the earth? Or was it The Big Bang? Puts us back to the Weather Man is always right! We can carbon date something back 1000's of years, but we can not predict the weather the next 7 days. Not a Hard Science. Earth has been in flux since its beginning. You find one study, I find another. I don't care what either side says, I just want to know if I detail my truck will it look nice for the next 7 days, or are we going to have a deep freeze so some pipes burst and I earn some money.

 

[TLDR20]

But we are warming? Or is it cooling? Did god create the earth? Or was it The Big Bang? Puts us back to the Weather Man is always right! We can carbon date something back 1000's of years, but we can not predict the weather the next 7 days. Not a Hard Science. Earth has been in flux since its beginning. You find one study, I find another. I don't care what either side says, I just want to know if I detail my truck will it look nice for the next 7 days, or are we going to have a deep freeze so some pipes burst and I earn some money.

Lol.

I am sure, 100%, in fact, you cannot find one single peer reviewed scientific study saying the earth is thousands of years old.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Why are we in crisis mode here? This is all I am asking

Follow the money my boy, follow the money.

Blood And Gore: Making A Killing On Anti-Carbon Investment Hype

 

[SpongeBob*24]

They didn't have satellite data in 1922 to actually compare the difference.

Bro, here you go! These researchers went to Bear Island (yellow dot), then to Spitzbergen (yellow dot), then continued North to 81' 29" (redline) and found no ICE in 1922, didn't need satellite..had eye witness accounts....



West is Greenland, South is Norway/Finland, East is the part of Russia noone visits, North is the North Pole....:-"

Now look at this Pic from from 1979, as far as we can go back, to Mid August 2007....There has been ice at that spot for 28 years.

 

[AWP]

I agree that the earth is warming, but I can't get behind a cause. I also agree that everything is cyclical and that people are divided (emotion or science is irrelevant, perception is reality) on the cause.

What I don't understand: Regardless of the above, why aren't we working to mitigate the damage? Whether this continues as the new normal or cools off, this is a problem we'll see in the future. This is kind of like the space race or building atomic weapons: debates on the future happened, but the overriding goal was solving the problems of the present. The world is bickering over causes rather than solutions.

"Our house is burning down."
"Let's talk about that grease fire you started."
"Shouldn't we put out the fire?"
"Not until we have someone to blame."

 

[Blizzard]

So, how about this wall?!

I'm no immigration expert (and agree it's a problem) but, for all practical purposes, every wall in history has really just been a challenge thrown by it's builders to see who can breach it; a challenge that was always accepted.

Isn't a better approach to remove the incentive to be on the "other side of the wall"? Seems that would be a more effective, and probably affordable, solution.

 

[NomadicWriter]

I had a friend of mine that I've known since the 2nd grade, who is now a lawyer, text me today asking if I thought torture was useful in interrogations. I responded that I'm not an intel guy and have never conducted an interrogation, but that I think the consensus among those who are informed on the matter is that there are more effective ways to glean information from a detainee. I then thought about it more, and think that what I consider torture and what another person considers torture might be two different things.

 

[SpitfireV]

So, how about this wall?!

I'm no immigration expert (and agree it's a problem) but, for all practical purposes, every wall in history has really just been a challenge thrown by it's builders to see who can breach it; a challenge that was always accepted.

Isn't a better approach to remove the incentive to be on the "other side of the wall"? Seems that would be a more effective, and probably affordable, solution.

A properly built wall will *reduce* the illegal importation of whatever into a country (somewhat) but it will never stop it since there are multiple streams. Nice symbol though. Very DDR.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

I agree that the earth is warming, but I can't get behind a cause. I also agree that everything is cyclical and that people are divided (emotion or science is irrelevant, perception is reality) on the cause.

What I don't understand: Regardless of the above, why aren't we working to mitigate the damage? Whether this continues as the new normal or cools off, this is a problem we'll see in the future. This is kind of like the space race or building atomic weapons: debates on the future happened, but the overriding goal was solving the problems of the present. The world is bickering over causes rather than solutions.

"Our house is burning down."
"Let's talk about that grease fire you started."
"Shouldn't we put out the fire?"
"Not until we have someone to blame."

Yepp....but here is the problem. A group of fire experts get together, not all the fire experts on earth, just 1821 of them. Some specialized in grease fires, some dryer fires. They post a study of their thoughts behind this FIRE while the fire is still going, so they really can't go running it to try to figure what caused it until its over.

Anywho..52 percent agree there was a fire and it was caused by grease, 10 percent say it was grease and the dryer that caused it, 20 say there is not enough evidence and 4 % say there was no fire.

Somehow the Liberal media spins that as 97% of fire experts agree that it was a grease fire and its on the internet that 97% of grease fire experts say this fire was caused by grease......

 

[Etype]

'Scientist say this is how radio waves propagate - but, this dude on the internet says wizards are casting magic spells. I don't know, tough call but I'm going with the wizard - he also sells some products on his website I'd like to buy, he just seems more trustworthy.'

Terrible analogy.

We can hypothesize and experiment with wave propogation with striking accuracy.

 

[Gunz]

Global Warming is profitable. The fear generated by environmental groups equates to hundreds of billions of dollars in donations. Billions more to businesses that profess to be environmentally friendly or use the words "eco" or "green" in their advertising. Billions in grants to climatologists and other scientists who've hitched their wagon to this impending catastrophe; ostracization of any and all who dare to present contrary reputable evidence. It is in the best financial interests of the proponents of global warming to maintain and cultivate the level of fear while supressing any threat to the flow of money.

And, just for the record, Al Gore is a fucking Tennessee tobacco farmer and lawyer who wouldn't know science if it crawled up his ass and bit him.

 

[CDG]

My thoughts on what the problem is.

 

[Red Flag 1]

My thoughts on what the problem is.

If Jack Nicholson did comedy routines^^^^^^. The guy's great!!

 

[DA SWO]

Environmental science doesn't consist of much science, it consists of predictions made by computers.

No, oceanography and meteorology intake a lot of data so those models can work.
You then run the model too see if the predictions are correct, if not go back to the lab.

Thanks for your expert opinion. Provide your background education, peer reviewed studies, and published papers on the topic of climate science.

BS Aviation Science/Aeronautical Meteorology with Climatology and Statistical Climatology thrown in.
Forecast study for Soto Cano AB in Honduras, and I developed a "hip pocket" forecast technique for U-2 support in the Pacific.
Please post your scientific creds.

Not going to cut it homey.

If we know the world is heating up, causing a rise in the levels of the oceans waters, why wouldn't we make every effort to acknowledge that, and try and prevent the long term consequences?

Actually warming will cause the oceans to lower a bit as ice has more volume than water.
(Expand this last section, I put my responses inside the quote box)

It will matter when our major cities are underwater, and we are unprepared for major weather events that will come with a warming of our oceans.

All that ice melting will cool the oceans, does adding ice to your drink make the drink warmer?

Memes and comics are so great.

Except when they are horribly inaccurate at talking about real issues:

The earth had been suggested to be round since the ancient Greeks, and has been known to be round since the 15th century. Before there was complicated math like we have today, obviously there were different views of the world.

Ancient Greeks may have theorized a round earth, but Vikings and an Italian dude PROVED it, it's a theory until proven.

the heliocentric model was disproven by Copernicus in the 16th century. Again, it wasn't science but religion that had the alternative hypothesis.

The heavier and lighter body theory boils down to surface area, rather than weight.

No, they recently proved that the feather and bowling ball will have the same gravitational acceleration in a near vacuum.

The atom was the smallest observable unit until new methods were developed to observe the forces of others...
Yes.

Seriously man, a senior in high school should have enough scientific understanding to talk about these points.

The global warming and cooling stuff isn't really related to these, but in a way it is. As technology advances we are able to both better understand the world around us, and predict the way the world may become.

 

[Gunz]

My thoughts on what the problem is.

He's right. We need to start cappin people. Maybe...4-5 billion to start. Think about it. Off that many and you'll never get stuck in another traffic jam, they'll be plenty of food, gas, beer to go around and every leftover motherfucker gets 4000 acres. And we smoke more dudes than chicks so you get a selection.