The Trump Presidency

[TLDR20]

I got to say, I just don't give a fuck about this ban.

I think protesting every little thing POTUS does is not a recipe for a good future. Some things are just not as good of a platform. IMHO this is one of those things. If he had said Muslim, ok. If he had said Islam, ok. All this is doing is distracting from the other stupid shit he did, like demote his DNI and CJCOS from the NSC, while promoting a political ideologue.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I got to say, I just don't give a fuck about this ban.

I think protesting every little thing POTUS does is not a recipe for a good future. Some things are just not as good of a platform. IMHO this is one of those things. If he had said Muslim, ok. If he had said Islam, ok. All this is doing is distracting from the other stupid shit he did, like demote his DNI and CJCOS from the NSC, while promoting a political ideologue.

I was trying to agree and expand on the part I 'bolded' and then I saw this morning's Star Tribune editorial. This is what I was trying to say:

"And yet, if we are to avoid a national nervous breakdown — and, more importantly, if we hope to retain the clarity to distinguish the daily displeasures likely to accompany having this boor in the White House from genuinely threatening excesses that can’t be tolerated — we need just a little perspective.

Should Trump prove as dangerous as some fear, the whole people, his current admirers included, will need to be rallied to oppose him.

But if every oafish remark and ill-mannered antic is treated as a crisis, folks may grow numb and unprepared for real trouble if it comes."

If we're lucky, Trump may follow the Ventura model


.

 

[TLDR20]

I was trying to agree and expand on the part I 'bolded' and then I saw this morning's Star Tribune editorial. This is what I was trying to say:

"And yet, if we are to avoid a national nervous breakdown — and, more importantly, if we hope to retain the clarity to distinguish the daily displeasures likely to accompany having this boor in the White House from genuinely threatening excesses that can’t be tolerated — we need just a little perspective.

Should Trump prove as dangerous as some fear, the whole people, his current admirers included, will need to be rallied to oppose him.

But if every oafish remark and ill-mannered antic is treated as a crisis, folks may grow numb and unprepared for real trouble if it comes."

If we're lucky, Trump may follow the Ventura model


.

That is a great quote. It does sum up how I feel. I am upset about a great many things he has done.

But I want to hold back my genuine disdain for a time he genuinely deserves nothing else. The thing is, as much as I want him to be a great president, and succeed for the betterment of our nation, I think it is a matter of time before he does something too fucked up.

 

[Blizzard]

The stylistic comparisons between Ventura and Trump are probably pretty fair. I also agree they both seem to bring a different, more workman type style to the role; that's not a bad thing. Let's just hope that's where the similarities end. Jesse was and remains an asshat. To me, in many respects, he was a terrible governor and that's how I'll recall him overall. Hoping for better from Trump.

 

[Devildoc]

The thing is, as much as I want him to be a great president, and succeed for the betterment of our nation, I think it is a matter of time before he does something too fucked up.

As polar opposite as you and I are on some things, I totally agree.

 

[Marauder06]

I got to say, I just don't give a fuck about this ban.

I think protesting every little thing POTUS does is not a recipe for a good future. Some things are just not as good of a platform. IMHO this is one of those things. If he had said Muslim, ok. If he had said Islam, ok. All this is doing is distracting from the other stupid shit he did, like demote his DNI and CJCOS from the NSC, while promoting a political ideologue.

I agree wholeheartedly. However I also worry that this administration is going to engage in the kind of IDGAF overreach and agenda-pushing that the last one did. This is going to alienate supporters and empower and embolden the opposition, and make the pendulum once again swing to the far left. No need to give the other side points through an own-goal, which to me is what this ban was. The optics were poor, the implementation rushed and confused, the unintended consequences many.

 

[TLDR20]

As polar opposite as you and I are on some things, I totally agree.

I still love America. We just see it differently. That is ok.

I want him to succeed for all our sake. My concern is that he will not, and it will be in all of our worst interest...

 

[Etype]

I think protesting every little thing POTUS does is not a recipe for a good future.

I recently wrote a paper on the overuse of sensational language and mass outrage in culture today.

In summary, fighting everything/being outraged by everything/everything being sensational leaves you with nowhere to go when something actually meets the criteria.

 

[CDG]

Personally, I find it hilarious that there are people who are so used to Presidents not realizing their campaign promises that they believed that he wouldn't do any of this stuff. He comes from the business world. You don't just say you're going to do something and then not execute if you want to stay in business.

This. People came out and voted for President Trump because he promised to be different. Every politician who has ever run promises all kinds of things. However, his brashness and IDGAF attitude about playing the normal political game turned out enough "deplorables" to put him in office. Likely even many of those who are ardent Trump supporters did not see him following through so quickly and decisively. There are pros and cons to it, and I am not saying I agree with everything he has done. BUT, goddamn if he isn't the first President to come in and get immediately to work on doing exactly what he said he would do.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Did anyone actually read the executive order in the media? For everyone else, here you go: Executive Order: Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States

Here is the Obama Travel Ban from 2011 Presidential Proclamation--Suspension of Entry of Aliens Subject to United Nations Security Council Travel Bans and International Emergency Economic Powers Act Sanctions

Apparently there is a cable floating around state about an official protest...I foresee a lot of careerists getting canned: State Department Expected to Issue Cable Protesting Trump Immigration Ban

In regards to the Trump Executive Order versus the Obama Proclamation- the Obama proclamation is a lot clearer with linked references to the UN and the references to previous executive orders at the bottom. I suppose when this his there was no forewarning at State and DHS to reference everything. Or that some of these folks at State are executing political activism in the work place.

 

[Dienekes]

This is probably a pipe dream, but I would love to see this BS actually turn into a massive reform of the party system. Two parties simply don't have the necessary scope or ability to encompass the entire political spectrum with which people (even-relatively under-informed people) think about politics or government and it's role in society. Failing that, I would love to see the Republican party look at its young people more or even society as a whole and accept some social progress as concrete and not going away. For example, I'm from the Deep South, and while being gay around here isn't exactly en vogue, most young people and a growing number of middle-aged people staunchly Christian people, simply don't give a flying fuck if you are or not. The prevailing opinion is "they're American give them their rights and let's move on to why I'm getting laid off because of a poor economy". The Republican party has remained entrenched in a social platform that just doesn't fit the worldview of a growing number of their constituency any more, and in my opinion, the only reason the Republicans did so well in the overall elections nationwide was the anti-establishment view put forth by Trump. All anyone had to say was that they support Trump as the Republican nominee and boom, you're anti-establishment in a lot of people's books which got you elected much easier.

The pipe dream is
1. To see a viable third party emerge that is progressive or liberal on some matters and staunchly conservative on others so that our government can be governed more effectively by compromise rather than who happens to have the most control at the moment.
or
2. See the Republican party shift to better encompass the ideology of its constituency because frankly at this point, a lot of people are only Republican because they don't like the Democratic party, and they have no other option.

Of course the odds that either one comes to fruition peacefully in the next five years are slim to none, but one can still dream.

 

[Marauder06]

This is probably a pipe dream, but I would love to see this BS actually turn into a massive reform of the party system. Two parties simply don't have the necessary scope or ability to encompass the entire political spectrum with which people (even-relatively under-informed people) think about politics or government and it's role in society....

I wonder if that would actually create more problems than it would solve. It would also probably take Constitutional amendments to make that happen. See also: Duverger's Law.

 

[amlove21]

I got to say, I just don't give a fuck about this ban.

I think protesting every little thing POTUS does is not a recipe for a good future. Some things are just not as good of a platform. IMHO this is one of those things. If he had said Muslim, ok. If he had said Islam, ok. All this is doing is distracting from the other stupid shit he did, like demote his DNI and CJCOS from the NSC, while promoting a political ideologue.

The only reason I actually care at all is the world's reaction. Like, if we could piss off just a few people here and there, that would be great. But everyone all at once is sort of a hard thing to get over. We aren't even two weeks in to this bad boy yet.

100% agree on freaking out every time the POTUS does something. We just have to get to a spot like we did with the second Bush- we know POTUS is going to say some ridiculous crap. He's bound to screw up. We all know it. Just accept that and let's see if we can get to a place where we can move this ship forward, regardless of the idiot captain.

 

[Devildoc]

This is probably a pipe dream, but I would love to see this BS actually turn into a massive reform of the party system. Two parties simply don't have the necessary scope or ability to encompass the entire political spectrum with which people (even-relatively under-informed people) think about politics or government and it's role in society. Failing that, I would love to see the Republican party look at its young people more or even society as a whole and accept some social progress as concrete and not going away. For example, I'm from the Deep South, and while being gay around here isn't exactly en vogue, most young people and a growing number of middle-aged people staunchly Christian people, simply don't give a flying fuck if you are or not. The prevailing opinion is "they're American give them their rights and let's move on to why I'm getting laid off because of a poor economy". The Republican party has remained entrenched in a social platform that just doesn't fit the worldview of a growing number of their constituency any more, and in my opinion, the only reason the Republicans did so well in the overall elections nationwide was the anti-establishment view put forth by Trump. All anyone had to say was that they support Trump as the Republican nominee and boom, you're anti-establishment in a lot of people's books which got you elected much easier.

The pipe dream is
1. To see a viable third party emerge that is progressive or liberal on some matters and staunchly conservative on others so that our government can be governed more effectively by compromise rather than who happens to have the most control at the moment.
or
2. See the Republican party shift to better encompass the ideology of its constituency because frankly at this point, a lot of people are only Republican because they don't like the Democratic party, and they have no other option.

Of course the odds that either one comes to fruition peacefully in the next five years are slim to none, but one can still dream.

There are 5 "major" parties, and like 30-something "minor" parties. Many states have multi-party representation. Part of the problem is the winners make the rules, and the GOP and DNC have made it so very difficult for any third party to get any kind of foothold.

The Libertarians sound like what you are looking for: socially liberal, fiscally and foreign policy conservative.

Part of the problem is that the parties, at least the GOP and DNC, morph and change every generation. So your father's Democrat party ain't the same one you see today. If I told you we'd have a president who was pro-Israel, pro-military, pro-CIA, pro-life, supports federal money for parochial schools, anti-Cuban, who would you guess? That was John Kennedy.

 

[Totentanz]

The Libertarians sound like what you are looking for: socially liberal, fiscally and foreign policy conservative.

Now if only they'd put forward a decent candidate...

 

[Dienekes]

There are 5 "major" parties, and like 30-something "minor" parties. Many states have multi-party representation. Part of the problem is the winners make the rules, and the GOP and DNC have made it so very difficult for any third party to get any kind of foothold.

The Libertarians sound like what you are looking for: socially liberal, fiscally and foreign policy conservative.

Part of the problem is that the parties, at least the GOP and DNC, morph and change every generation. So your father's Democrat party ain't the same one you see today. If I told you we'd have a president who was pro-Israel, pro-military, pro-CIA, pro-life, supports federal money for parochial schools, anti-Cuban, who would you guess? That was John Kennedy.

Sure, other parties technically exist and have a small amount of card-carrying members, but what parties genuinely affect national policy other than Democrats and Republicans? There are some independents in office but even they are independent rather than subscribing to an alternate party. Personally, I want there to be a genuine plurality of ideas that leads to the most effective governance for society as whole rather than a have party whip whose primary job is to "whip the votes" for whatever the leadership decides to care about or what is politically feasible at that moment. Looking further into Mara's post on Duverger's law though, it seems even more gigantic a leap.

Ex: The Libertarian party, which I admire, is the most likely candidate as the next major party for what I described, but who really believes that they currently wield any real power in crafting major policy or will in the near future?

I realize I'm discussing an "in the perfect world scenario" which exists purely in discussion, and I didn't mean to track off the 100 days theme.

 

[Devildoc]

Sure, other parties technically exist and have a small amount of card-carrying members, but what parties genuinely affect national policy other than Democrats and Republicans? There are some independents in office but even they are independent rather than subscribing to an alternate party. Personally, I want there to be a genuine plurality of ideas that leads to the most effective governance for society as whole rather than a have party whip whose primary job is to "whip the votes" for whatever the leadership decides to care about or what is politically feasible at that moment. Looking further into Mara's post on Duverger's law though, it seems even more gigantic a leap.

Ex: The Libertarian party, which I admire, is the most likely candidate as the next major party for what I described, but who really believes that they currently wield any real power in crafting major policy or will in the near future?

I realize I'm discussing an "in the perfect world scenario" which exists purely in discussion, and I didn't mean to track off the 100 days theme.

All of your points are valid. It used to be the GOP and DNC were a bell curve; most in the center, the further left/right you go, the more extreme, the fewer the numbers. Now it seems like it is a fishbowl-curve with fewer in the middle and more to the extremes.

Like him or lump him, I am hopeful that Trump's presidency will get EVERYONE engaged and we get back to the middle; or, create enough momentum in other parties that although they may not be in the majority, have enough sway to make a difference.

 

[racing_kitty]

Now if only they'd put forward a decent candidate...

Gary Johnson was better than the Cheeto in Chief and the snarling alcoholic misandrist thundercunt.

Then again, Pookie was a better candidate than those two.

 

[RackMaster]

Gary Johnson was better than the Cheeto in Chief and the snarling alcoholic misandrist thundercunt.

Then again, Pookie was a better candidate than those two.

Your mean Gary "Aleppo" Johnson?

 

[racing_kitty]

Your mean Gary "Aleppo" Johnson?

Yup. The majority of the voting public couldn't find Aleppo on a map if you marked it in fluorescent paint and told them there were enough hookers there to literally fuck them to death. He had more in common with America than the cunt, the Cheeto, and the "I'm all for the proletariat but still own three houses worth more than you scum will make in your lifetime" fuckwit from Vermont.