I agree with you, man.
I was very disappointed he didn't throw out the first pitch. A few weeks after 9/11 another President walked out on the field at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx...Ground Zero was still smoking. This is well worth the 4:30 minutes.
The Trump Presidency
- Thread starter AWP
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I agree with you, man.
I was very disappointed he didn't throw out the first pitch. A few weeks after 9/11 another President walked out on the field at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx...Ground Zero was still smoking. This is well worth the 4:30 minutes.
9/11 changed everything, as did the invasion of Iraq. A lot of good things in the Bush Presidency were lost in the years of uproar and infighting. Unfortunate.
And the more distance I get from that time, the more I think differently. Bush the 2nd wasn't a great thinker, wasn't great on his feet, had some serious policy missteps.
But I liken him now to a "war time consigliere" in La Cosa Nostra. Yeah, he screwed up at a lot of the nuances, but looking back on it, he was a pretty good boss in a situation that was literally unprecedented and one hell of a war time CINC.
I honestly believe he's a decent human being, one who genuinely cares about people, and woke up on the morning of 9/11 destined for a C or C+ presidency. He then dealt with a shitstorm of his own making in Iraq, but also had Katrina and the recession to fight. Even without Iraq his 8 years would suck and in 200 years this country's had maybe 10 or 12 politicians who could actually handle a post-9/11 world.
He rose to the occasion (9/11) better than I ever expected, exemplifying crisis leadership. Rumsfeld was a bad choice in many respects, W got his ass handed to him over the WMD issue as a pretext for invasion and then the ill-fated carrier landing and victory speech on the flight deck...if that wasn't an invitation for every shithead fedayeen and small change terrorist, I don't what was. But I still like him. I like his sense of humor. I like his family, his mom and dad. Just sorry we didn't get UBL during his watch. W...git some. 'Merica.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
To be honest I'll take W over O every day of the week and twice on Sunday. O was a great thinker, but I honestly don't feel he was a get shit done guy. Very hands off with Congress when it came to certain initiatives. It will be truly hard to judge his presidency until we're past the next two in the historical context. I can say clearly right now though that the invasion of and subsequent occupation of Iraq was a tactical failure in a miss step of what our grand strategy may have been. Invading Iraq obviously didn't suit it, but I understand the idea behind it. The tactics used caused a significant failure and an Iraq that isn't exactly our best friend in the region. Two C+ Presidents in a row...can't wait for this D- to get going.
Kraut783
SOF Support
I have always been impressed with what GWB does for wounded warriors, he continues his associations with them through his institute....functions, events, golf, bike rides...etc. Recently did a book of paintings.
President Bush To Publish Book Of Wounded Warrior Portraits
President Bush To Publish Book Of Wounded Warrior Portraits
86 days y'all!
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I think that this article in WSJ is interesting, although directly related to ISIS it shows a drastic shift if how our foreign policy is conducted. I really hate this quote...wtf are we doing give ISIS carrots?
"The firmer military stance has fueled growing concerns among State Department officials working on Middle East policy that the Trump administration is giving short shrift to the diplomatic tools the Obama administration favored. Removing the carrot from the traditional carrot-and-stick approach, some State Department officials warn, could hamper the pursuit of long-term strategies needed to prevent volatile conflicts from reigniting once the shooting stops."
Trump Gives Generals More Freedom on ISIS Fight
When it comes to ISIS, they need to be wiped out.Trump Gives Generals More Freedom on ISIS Fight
Ok. How?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Well...first comes shutting off the training of rebel groups. Then comes resurrecting Curtis Lemay. And letting Assad take care of the ground work...but the third part is pretty much against US Policy right now if you listen to Nikki Haley.
"I have zero to add; just ignore me" would have been cleaner.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I typed out a few responses, but I think: "Whatever man." Is about the best we're going to get this eve.
Large scale invasion and occupation ala Operation Iraqi Freedom. That comes with a massive human and financial cost that no one wants to pay though.
I have complete faith in Mattis. There are no perfect solutions here but I am confident that he will find plot the best course ahead given all our budgetary and political restraints.
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D
Deleted member 2517
Guest
My view is he was a great CinC, not a very good president. Those things tend to be mutually exclusive. Now you have FDR and Lincoln who worked both ends of the spectrum well, then you have someone like our most recent POTUS who (IMO) was actually a very good president but not the best as CinC. I always respected the man when it came to W. Much like Senator McCain on the right or Jim Webb on the left I've always looked at them as leaders who put the country first, regardless of how I felt about their actual policies.
All good. I was expecting 'whatever man' anyway.
Blizzard
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Not the best as CinC?! I assume you're referring to Obama; he fuckin' sucked and wasn't a very good president either.
Good presidents will work to find common ground between two parties and compromise on their positions in the best interest of the American people; compromise is for politicians. Obama was a divider, a condescending idealist, and largely ineffective.
The one thing Obama has going for him is that he is an articulate bullshitter. He's a guy that really likes to give the appearance of being smarter than he really is. He really believes that he is profound. In reality, he's uninspiring and his speeches never have any real fire. That's because he's all hat, no cattle. Every time he spoke, I felt like someone should call Manchester.
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Obama was naiive because he tried to compromise with Republicans, the leader of whom blatantly said that he was going to obstruct every thing that he did. It's one of the things that upsets most center-left Democrats the most: here was a party with a total lock on both houses of congress and the presidency, and the neophyte president didn't run through every piece of liberal legislation that he could. If you look at the history of his signature legislation, the Affordable Care Act, it's so riddled with holes because he tried to compromise on significant portions of it.
-Before the senate version left committee, it was amended 160 times - all by republican committee members
-It was originally going to have a public option, which was struck after a filibuster threat
-One of the first incarnations of the bill was single-payer, but republicans were so hyped up by the specter of "socialism" that it was nixed
-He brought key republicans to Baltimore and discussed health care with them for three whole days in 2010, and got totally stonewalled for it
There are a number of other non-ACA related compromises made, especially during his first term. Tax reform and keeping Robert Gates on as SECDEF, as an example. Along with the former, he kept the Bush-era tax cuts, and even though he raised the top marginal tax rate (by a staggering 4%
) he also raised the top tax bracket to which that rate would apply. Compromise after compromise after compromise. It was incredibly frustrating to watch this guy who campaigned as a charismatic labor liberal turn into another Clintonesque center-left democrat. Hell, just look at his judicial branch appointments, including Merrick Garland! He was an total milquetoast centrist judge that was selected as an appeal candidate to the obstructionist wing of the republicans, and he didn't even get a hearing! That doesn't even begin to mention the hundreds of lower court nominations that were blocked for nothing more than reasons. I will grant you the last part - he was largely ineffective, but not for the reasons that you think.
So yeah, the talking point about Obama never compromising is completely unsupported by actual history.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
So what you're saying is that he failed to bring the team together. I definitely thought the ACA was a failure, all on his part. He just let it happen.
Judicial appointments...holt fawk, Kagan not only looks like a bag lady, she's a bag lady. The difference between Harriet Myers and her is that she's on the Supreme Court.
Although I voted for him a second time...that 2009 speech at West Point has left a pretty sour taste in the back of my mouth.
Judicial appointments...holt fawk, Kagan not only looks like a bag lady, she's a bag lady. The difference between Harriet Myers and her is that she's on the Supreme Court.
Although I voted for him a second time...that 2009 speech at West Point has left a pretty sour taste in the back of my mouth.
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