Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Blizzard said:
Prigozhin is the bigger issue in Russia. That's the guy who needs to find an open window.
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Prigozhin, Kadyrov, Surovikin etc are all rising in power and certainly part of the problem. But all of them are ultimately still just Putins henchmen. They were able to work their way up in his apparatus, because he allowed that. Putin needs hardliners to do the dirty work. What was "necessary" from their POV, like we observe in this war. At some point they may actualy challenge his rule. Right now though, he is the one calling all the decicive shots. Really, nothing will change by removing a few branches, or even the core, uncle Vlad himself. The whole rotten tree must be brought down. Ideally by the people.
 
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Gordus said:
... The whole rotten tree must be brought down. Ideally by the people.
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Ideally...but not holding my breath. The war needs to drag on for years and many, many more Russians need to die before the people get the outrage and the balls to take to the streets in significant numbers. Right now your average Russkie is still drinking the patriotic Kool-Aid. Get the body count up to, say, 58,220 -- oh, just a random number that comes to mind :sneaky: -- when a lot more people know somebody on the list, and maybe the earth under Putin's feet will start to move.

Right now the numbers crunchers at Mediazona and the BBC Russian desk are coming up with approximately 10,000 Russian dead. (Mark Miley says 100,000 but he's smoking crack). So if 10,000 Russkies have bought a farm in Ukraine after one year of combat, we'll need to wait another 5 or 6 years at this rate for the death toll to have more impact.
 
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Gunz said:
Ideally...but not holding my breath. The war needs to drag on for years and many, many more Russians need to die before the people get the outrage and the balls to take to the streets in significant numbers. Right now your average Russkie is still drinking the patriotic Kool-Aid. Get the body count up to, say, 58,220 -- oh, just a random number that comes to mind :sneaky: -- when a lot more people know somebody on the list, and maybe the earth under Putin's feet will start to move.

Right now the numbers crunchers at Mediazona and the BBC Russian desk are coming up with approximately 10,000 Russian dead. (Mark Miley says 100,000 but he's smoking crack). So if 10,000 Russkies have bought a farm in Ukraine after one year of combat, we'll need to wait another 5 or 6 years at this rate for the death toll to have more impact.
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Yeah, can confirm from personal experience. Sadly that seems to be the only ( or one of the few ) way(s) right now. I really wish it wasn't. Another 5-6 years of this. Great. Smh.
 
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Gunz said:
Well, now...maybe not. There are a lot of "ifs."

My last post assumes that the Ukrainians can hold out. If they fold, all bets are off and Putin wins. They've got to have the tenacity, the weapons and especially the manpower to outlast Russian resolve. They're gonna be getting killed at the same time, hopefully not at the same rate. It's up to them to rack up the Russkie body count to the point where Putin's Kool-Aid becomes a sick joke among a large portion of the Russian populace.
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I agree. The resolve is certainly there, but current Ukrainian losses seem similar in scale. Morbid, but the attrition warfare must turn decicively in their favour.
 
Blizzard said:
Even if Ukraine were to eventually fall, and I don't think it will, this is still a monumental loss for Putin. Aside from losing massive amounts of their best troops and equipment, the Soviets have effectively lost their ability to project force.
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On the other hand, if they turn their back on Europe ( which I doubt ), it may cripple ( or so is the big fear ) prosperity, in especialy certain European countries. But they are just as dependent and I don't think they want to be too much on China. So I really wonder what would happen if they did actualy admit defeat back out of this mess with concessions. Probably an internal power struggle / coup and back to square one. :hmm:
If all those people remain in the power structures I doubt any good political deals can be struck. Smth needs to really force them to the table.
 
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chris-barbalis-J698hh61HPo-unsplash.jpg


2023 could be the year for Putin......
 
AWP said:
One month shy of a year for the 2-day special military operation and Russia's about to hit 1,500 destroyed or captured tanks.
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TASS, today: “Russian’s level of trust in Putin exceeds 78-percent, poll shows”

(Hell, just 78?? You’d think Tass could’ve coughed up a few more percentage points for the Boss.)
 

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