Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Umm,

How do you hold "peace talks" if one of the belligerent parties is excluded from the talks? Is this some new dark-arts diplomacy where we just tell Russia what to do all of a sudden? Why didn't we do this before then?
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Kaldak said:
Umm,

How do you hold "peace talks" if one of the belligerent parties is excluded from the talks? Is this some new dark-arts diplomacy where we just tell Russia what to do all of a sudden? Why didn't we do this before then?
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You mean like when we held peace talks with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government?
 
We talked a lot of shit about the Russians pre-winter during the "most successful counteroffensive since WWII"...but this Spring Offensive seems to have lost almost as much ground as it has gained for the Ukrainians. I think we've [not the board, but the DoD shills] have overreacted to our training capabilities and the Ukrainians. Also the Russians don't seem as disorganized as we all thought because with the Wagner nonsense Bakhmut should have fallen and there should have been a breakout when they did a battle handover. This one is gonna be years in the making and I'm not sure who's gonna win.

But maybe it will be like when we negotiated peace in Afghanistan....
 
Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing lasts five+ years. In order to stay relevant, CNN gonna be like, "Day 2705 of the War, What We know".
 
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ThunderHorse said:
We talked a lot of shit about the Russians pre-winter during the "most successful counteroffensive since WWII"...but this Spring Offensive seems to have lost almost as much ground as it has gained for the Ukrainians. I think we've [not the board, but the DoD shills] have overreacted to our training capabilities and the Ukrainians. Also the Russians don't seem as disorganized as we all thought because with the Wagner nonsense Bakhmut should have fallen and there should have been a breakout when they did a battle handover. This one is gonna be years in the making and I'm not sure who's gonna win.
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I agree but think we need to be fair here. Right now the AFU is regaining more ground than losing. Not only that. In recent days they also managed to thwart a hyped up major Russian assault in the North around Novoiehorivka, ejecting them from all their gains back to square 1. Yes, they are also losing some Eastern territories in turn. Yes, those costly successes in the South may not be as important as controlling Bakhmut. But let's give credit where its due. The Ukrainians are fighting and continuing to push back.
Seems many, especialy media, were expecting another Blitz and are all gloomy now, over the fact they didn't get that.
The Kharkiv Blitz worked, because territory, great decepton and circumstances allowed it. Propaganda, speeches and announcments fooled the Russians into believing that Ukraine would focus all their efforts in the South. The AFU did attack Kherson, but it drew a huge numbers of Russian troops from Kharkiv, leaving almost a void in the Russian defence, which was barely fortified to begin with. Ukraine was evidently prepared and quickly exploited with overwhelming force. It was a carefuly prepared and timed one-shot opportunity. If they manage to pull that off again, I'd be pleasantly surprised.
It worked so well in fact, that many Russian bloggers and experts warn that this "Spring Offensive" was likely another such attempt. Who knows. Maybe it is. In any case, it are different situations. Ruskis had a year to prepare mine fields and several lines of defence and well yeah, they aren't stupid. They learn from mistakes like everyone else. They have drones, atgms, artillery etc. and will use them. Naturally the Russians wouldn't just allow the AFU to happily walk all the way down to Berdiansk / Mariupol and split, or cut them off from Crimea.
 
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I cant remember if I've posted this thought or not - but here is my thought on Ukraine "winning" by any measure of success - so I feel like a story is in order but first, a few caveats:
I am a home owner.
I am committed to defending my home from criminals, thugs, and ne'er do wells.
I operate under the premise that when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.
So, here we go...

Late one night, I hear a rumbling in the other side of my home. I respond - it is my next door neighbors attempting a home invasion. They clearly seek to inflict harm on my family as they rob me of my possessions. A fight ensures; there are injuries on both sides, but I fail to repel the invaders. They make no more progress in my home, because I have them confined to the back bedroom.

I call for the police - but they never come. Oh sure, they send a car - but the cops never actually come in the house to help repel these mother fuckers. Police from adjacent counties periodically stop by to help me with firearms maintenance or a few boxes of ammo when they leave but none of these mother fuckers actually stop and help me get these fucking thugs out of my house.
I'm winning though.
I'm fucking winning.
I'm winning because everyone keeps telling me I am winning.

Now, my house is a fucking mess, I can't get an insurance adjuster to come and look at the damage until these cocksuckers leave, and my kids are fucking terrified that something will happen to them in the middle of the night.
...but I'm winning

These assholes in the back of my house are busting holes in the wall, they leave the lights on 24 hours a day, they run the heating and A/C on MAX day and night regardless of the temperature. My electric bill is sky high and these fuckers wont leave. It's cool though - because tons of folks are rooting for me - and lots of my neighbors are giving me money to pay my electric bills - in fact, the money coming in seems like it is higher than the cost of my electric bills.
So, yeah, I'm still winning.

The other day these pricks busted a water pipe so now I have water damage and its probably going to get worse. It's cool though because one of my neighbors is a plumber and he has promised to give me a great deal when I am ready to fix the busted pipes. I've got roofers, and drywall folks and landscapers and even a pretty good electrician living in the area. So again, I feel like I am winning because they have ALL promised to give me a great deal rebuilding my house...
...just as soon as I get these mother fuckers to leave.

They tried to expand their control from the back bedroom to include the guest room, but I caught them in the hallway and forced them back into the back bedroom.
It was a big win for me and the family. A few of the neighbors were so tickled at my big win that they gave me a few more boxes of ammo, one of them gave me a new vacuum cleaner, and another made me a delicious pan of lasagna - and I fucking LOVE lasagna because lasagna tastes like winning.

There is no end to this in site - but some of my neighbors have been negotiating an agreement. I'm not sure how it will turn out because they didn't actually invite the sonsabitches that took over the back bedroom of my house. Who cares though - I'm winning so mother fucking big right now that I think I'm going to use some of this extra cash they gave me for paying my electric bills to go buy myself a nice big solid gold "Home Invasion Champion" trophy to put on my mantle...

Now, lets not forget our hashtag 'stand with Ukraine' campaigns - and lets not forget to replace our social media avatars with that little blue and yellow flag square that shows how much we care.
Most of all, lets keep making excuses for our current governments ability to piss away our national treasure in a way that will exponentially grow their net worth while driving the rest of our nation into the poor house.
Besides, the poors are only really good for manual labor when you cant afford robots and AI


This story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this story are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, Baltic region land wars, global money laundering, or war profiteering is intended or No person or entity associated with this story has actually received taxpayer money payment or promises of being paid for services using taxpayer money nor was the author gifted with a pan of lasagna.
 
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Box said:
I cant remember if I've posted this thought or not - but here is my thought on Ukraine "winning" by any measure of success - so I feel like a story is in order but first, a few caveats:
I am a home owner.
I am committed to defending my home from criminals, thugs, and ne'er do wells.
I operate under the premise that when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.
So, here we go...

Late one night, I hear a rumbling in the other side of my home. I respond - it is my next door neighbors attempting a home invasion. They clearly seek to inflict harm on my family as they rob me of my possessions. A fight ensures; there are injuries on both sides, but I fail to repel the invaders. They make no more progress in my home, because I have them confined to the back bedroom.

I call for the police - but they never come. Oh sure, they send a car - but the cops never actually come in the house to help repel these mother fuckers. Police from adjacent counties periodically stop by to help me with firearms maintenance or a few boxes of ammo when they leave but none of these mother fuckers actually stop and help me get these fucking thugs out of my house.
I'm winning though.
I'm fucking winning.
I'm winning because everyone keeps telling me I am winning.

Now, my house is a fucking mess, I can't get an insurance adjuster to come and look at the damage until these cocksuckers leave, and my kids are fucking terrified that something will happen to them in the middle of the night.
...but I'm winning

These assholes in the back of my house are busting holes in the wall, they leave the lights on 24 hours a day, they run the heating and A/C on MAX day and night regardless of the temperature. My electric bill is sky high and these fuckers wont leave. It's cool though - because tons of folks are rooting for me - and lots of my neighbors are giving me money to pay my electric bills - in fact, the money coming in seems like it is higher than the cost of my electric bills.
So, yeah, I'm still winning.

The other day these pricks busted a water pipe so now I have water damage and its probably going to get worse. It's cool though because one of my neighbors is a plumber and he has promised to give me a great deal when I am ready to fix the busted pipes. I've got roofers, and drywall folks and landscapers and even a pretty good electrician living in the area. So again, I feel like I am winning because they have ALL promised to give me a great deal rebuilding my house...
...just as soon as I get these mother fuckers to leave.

They tried to expand their control from the back bedroom to include the guest room, but I caught them in the hallway and forced them back into the back bedroom.
It was a big win for me and the family. A few of the neighbors were so tickled at my big win that they gave me a few more boxes of ammo, one of them gave me a new vacuum cleaner, and another made me a delicious pan of lasagna - and I fucking LOVE lasagna because lasagna tastes like winning.

There is no end to this in site - but some of my neighbors have been negotiating an agreement. I'm not sure how it will turn out because they didn't actually invite the sonsabitches that took over the back bedroom of my house. Who cares though - I'm winning so mother fucking big right now that I think I'm going to use some of this extra cash they gave me for paying my electric bills to go buy myself a nice big solid gold "Home Invasion Champion" trophy to put on my mantle...

Now, lets not forget our hashtag 'stand with Ukraine' campaigns - and lets not forget to replace our social media avatars with that little blue and yellow flag square that shows how much we care.
Most of all, lets keep making excuses for our current governments ability to piss away our national treasure in a way that will exponentially grow their net worth while driving the rest of our nation into the poor house.
Besides, the poors are only really good for manual labor when you cant afford robots and AI


This story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this story are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, Baltic region land wars, global money laundering, or war profiteering is intended or No person or entity associated with this story has actually received taxpayer money payment or promises of being paid for services using taxpayer money nor was the author gifted with a pan of lasagna.
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I like that analogy, but there's one major point I wouldn't necessarily agree with. Just based on personal impression. The Ukrainians I talked to and their leaders, at least seem to keep their expectations and perception mostly on a realistic, albeit optimistic level, instead of just c(h)oping. Otherwise they wouldn't be asking for so much and be transparent about the fact how critical things are. Latter is also present, especialy in their bloggers, but not the same as displayed by their opponents. Even Western coverage has become dreary in regards to Ukraine "winning". At least that's my observation over here.

I too see only two real options for Ukraine. Either get the invaders to leave, with or without outside help because why tf should the Russians get away with it, and yet again, right, ... or stop the bloodshed, accept their enemys physical claims in current posessions and let go. Hope for some favourable developments in the far future. Meanwhile rebuild what's left of their home through foreign assistance. Make the best of losing a great chunk of territory, the entire industrial heartland and entire coastline ( aka back bedroom, workshop, garage and pool ).
Whatever the Ukrainians ultimately decide, its their choice and we have to respect it. All the West can do, is either support or leave them to their own devices. If they choose that they had enough and surrender those lands, rooms whatever, than that's how it is. If they want to drive the Russians out, all power to them. I'll gladly pay a bit more taxes for that. Because again, they won't stop after Ukraine. I'm also 100% certain, they won't stop in Ukraine. But that's just me.
Others don't want to have any part in it. I get that and its perfectly fine. I feel sorry for anyone involuntarily caught inbetween, or forced to feel the consequences. Which is pretty much the world at this point. Neither can most of us really be blamed for their governments opaque decisions and schemes. Except for voting them.
But what's happening right now, is happening and it needs to be stopped, one way or the other. You ain't getting them at the table though or its not considered the goal / right time yet. Idk why.
In any case. Actors on both sides instigated this war. They refused to negotiate, settle on any agreement, respect eachothers political interests, threats, fears and instead went for a head on collision via proxies. I just don't see any will to cease this on government level. We're in the shit. First and foremost the Ukrainians, who in the most literal sense, get their lives destroyed. It is a terrible situation.
Sorry for the rant.
 
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Are we still doing this? Wild.

@Gordus , did you know you can send the US Government any amount of money you want at any time? Just hit this website and you can electronically send funds. Just write "For Ukraine" in the memo block.

While I am being sarcastic and tongue in cheek here, saying "I'll pay a bit more in taxes" highlights a main problem with our government and general feelings of its citizens in regards to this little proxy war.

We currently have a conflict without an off ramp for either side. This populace thinks virtue signaling and "paying a little higher prices at the pump" is gonna fix a war, and an administration that's asleep at the wheel- Biden just started a 10-day vacation.

Also, of all places, the Washington Post compared Biden's current vacation schedule and Trump's. Bottom line? Biden goes to wealthy donors' cribs and doesn't work. Trump went almost exclusively to properties he owned and worked there because he thought the White House was a dump.
 
amlove21 said:
Are we still doing this? Wild.

@Gordus , did you know you can send the US Government any amount of money you want at any time? Just hit this website and you can electronically send funds. Just write "For Ukraine" in the memo block.

While I am being sarcastic and tongue in cheek here, saying "I'll pay a bit more in taxes" highlights a main problem with our government and general feelings of its citizens in regards to this little proxy war.

We currently have a conflict without an off ramp for either side. This populace thinks virtue signaling and "paying a little higher prices at the pump" is gonna fix a war, and an administration that's asleep at the wheel- Biden just started a 10-day vacation.

Also, of all places, the Washington Post compared Biden's current vacation schedule and Trump's. Bottom line? Biden goes to wealthy donors' cribs and doesn't work. Trump went almost exclusively to properties he owned and worked there because he thought the White House was a dump.
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No hard feelings. Its perfectly fine to have different positions on this and I can't speak for any American. I have my personal motivations, that are not "virtue signaling" but born from Russian aggression against my own people and simply sympathy for their current victims.
So yes, I'd be willing to pay a bit more, if it helps them. I'm already donating money to Ukraine for medical supplies. Will that fix the war ? Maybe it won't. But it may help a few more miserable lives out there and that's all I need. I agree with the administration part, hence the bit in my prev reply.
 
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Gordus said:
No hard feelings. Its perfectly fine to have different positions on this and I can't speak for any American. I have my personal motivations, that are not "virtue signaling" but born from Russian aggression against my own people and simply sympathy for their current victims.
So yes, I'd be willing to pay a bit more, if it helps them. I'm already donating money to Ukraine for medical supplies. Will that fix the war ? Maybe it won't. But it may help a few more miserable lives out there and that's all I need. I agree with the administration part, hence the bit in my prev reply.
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That I get. My dad's family is Finn; they hate the Russians with a deep passion. Oh, they pretty much hate everyone else, too, but especially Russia.

The world is a lot smaller than it used to be, and there's a much greater risk for things like this (the war, not this thread) to become personal. Although I really think the US needs to take a HUUUUUUUUGE step back, you gotta do you.
 

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