Ukraine - Russia Conflict

[AWP]

Lost links seem like the most likely scenario in my mind.

The regional cluster is interesting.

Oh, the source for my graphic is OSINTtechnical on TwiX.

 

[DA SWO]

Poland could shoot them down if they were interested in sovereignty.

 

[Topkick]

Poland could shoot them down if they were interested in sovereignty.

And Poland pays more than their share into NATO, so we all should have their back... whatever that looks like.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Poland could shoot them down if they were interested in sovereignty.

Just like we could have shot down the Chinese spy balloons?

 

[Devildoc]

I don't mind Article 4 proceedings--I mean, it's worth talking about--but I am afraid that newer, smaller NATO members will want to leap to Article 5 if for no other reason than historical paranoia and history.

 

[amlove21]

And Poland pays more than their share into NATO, so we all should have their back... whatever that looks like.

I mean... *should* we, tho?

 

[DA SWO]

Poland could shoot them down if they were interested in sovereignty.

Now finding out Poland/NATO did engage and down drones.
I don't buy this was an accident, Russia has skirted or just gone through Polish airspace with no reaction (words don't count).
Let's see what happens next, no-fly buffer over Belarus would indicate seriousness, and an escalation.
Article 4 is nothing but huffing and puffing (IMO).

 

[talonlm]

Nonsense. Let's make this truly interesting. Put up a 250-mile buffer up over the Ukraine-Poland-Modolva and the Belarus-Poland border. KH-101s are fast--250 miles buys you something like thirty minutes against one. Can't assume a cruise missile's gonna stop in Lviv, right? See what ol' Pooty-Poo does with that.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Topkick]

I mean... *should* we, tho?

Right? Its a rhetorical question/ statement for sure, because are WE even still NATO? But isn't that what NATO is?

 

[BloodStripe]

Right? Its a rhetorical question/ statement for sure, because are WE even still NATO? But isn't that what NATO is?

I’ll bite. What’s your definition of NATO? Consider how basically never Article 4 and 5 have been used since its inception.

 

[Topkick]

I’ll bite. What’s your definition of NATO? Consider how basically never Article 4 and 5 have been used since its inception.

Just a rhetorical comment based off Trump constantly threatening to pull out of NATO. The treaty is written very clearly, IMO.

 

[AWP]

Just a rhetorical comment based off Trump constantly threatening to pull out if NATO.

If you haven't pulled out then you're still in so you either live up to your obligations or pay for sticking around.

That's how it works for guys, not sure how it works for NATO.

 

[Topkick]

If you haven't pulled out then you're still in so you either live up to your obligations or pay for sticking around.

That's how it works for guys, not sure how it works for NATO.

An attack on one is an attack on all, right? But Trump doesn't always play well with others.

 

[AWP]

An attack on one is an attack on all, right? But Trump doesn't always play well with others.

Just tell Poland we're going out to buy some bread.

 

[DA SWO]

I’ll bite. What’s your definition of NATO? Consider how basically never Article 4 and 5 have been used since its inception.

Article 5 was invoked on Sept 12 , 2001.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I’ll bite. What’s your definition of NATO? Consider how basically never Article 4 and 5 have been used since its inception.

Article 4 has been invoked Eight times. (5 of them were Turkey itself)

Article 5 has only been invoked once and you know when that was.

 

[BloodStripe]

Yes I’m aware of the rare times they’ve been used. That was my point to the question @Topkick

My own opinion is I’ve seen enough Europeans bleed for us that we are still NATO. And I want us to still be NATO.

 

[Topkick]

Yes I’m aware of the rare times they’ve been used. That was my point to the question @Topkick

My own opinion is I’ve seen enough Europeans bleed for us that we are still NATO. And I want us to still be NATO.

My OP clearly stated my position. I think we should have the back of those who've paid their dues.

 

[Blizzard]

Poland is carrying their weight and then some.

 

[DA SWO]

So Russia violated Estonia's airspace with an armed fighter.
Lots of huffing and puffing and another Article 4 meeting.
NATO=No Action, Talk Only.

Russian MiG-31s Busting Estonian Airspace Has Eastern Europe On Edge