Ukraine - Russia Conflict

SpitfireV

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Kissenger is a legit commentator even if you disagree with what he says and you're surprised he's both still alive and younger than you thought he'd be.
 

Devildoc

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Kissenger is a legit commentator even if you disagree with what he says and you're surprised he's both still alive and younger than you thought he'd be.

Kissinger is riding high on his memoirs. He has been stuck in cold war/Soviet-era policy. But I admit a broken clock is right twice a day, so even can be right every now and then.
 

Gunz

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Many people still remember him, and not wel. Every time he came to Yale there were massive protests over him being a “war criminal.”

Considering the source, that was the Left's blanket term for anybody remotely associated with the conduct of the war. Everybody who came back from Vietnam was a war criminal. Everybody in uniform was a war criminal. Unless you pulled a John Kerry and openly demonstrated your contempt for the military.

My feelings about Kissinger are mixed. He's brilliant, cold, kinda creepy. But brilliant. I think his views on Russia--not to antagonize her--stem from his view on power balances that may not be as relevant now as they were in 1970.

And there's been blatant hypocrisy on the part of the Left when it comes to the Vietnam era. The former members of the "counter culture" worship the World War Two generation now, (i.e. their parents), but hated them then. Many of them still resent Vietnam veterans but forget that it was the World War Two generation that got us involved, ran the war and led the troops.
 
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Devildoc

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Considering the source, that was the Left's blanket term for anybody remotely associated with the conduct of the war. Everybody who came back from Vietnam was a war criminal. Everybody in uniform was a war criminal. Unless you pulled a John Kerry and openly demonstrated your contempt for the military.

My feelings about Kissinger are mixed. He's brilliant, cold, kinda creepy. But brilliant. I think his views on Russia--not to antagonize her--stem from his view on power balances that may not be as relevant now as they were in 1970.

And there's been blatant hypocrisy on the part of the Left when it comes to the Vietnam era. The former members of the "counter culture" worship the World War Two generation now, (i.e. their parents), but hated them then. Many of them still resent Vietnam veterans but forget that it was the World War Two generation that got us involved, ran the war and led the troops.

RE: bolded/italicized, I agree. That's my issue: we wouldn't (well, shouldn't) give a doc a public platform to talk about surgical techniques from 40 years ago but well outdated and superseded. I get that he is brilliant. But his perspectives are based on and informed by his experiences of the 60s and 70s.

RE: your last para, those same former members of the counter culture and anti-war movement who now embrace the WW2 generation now, are also the hawks who appear to have little qualm about sending kids (but not theirs!) into harm's way.
 

ThunderHorse

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Kissenger is a legit commentator even if you disagree with what he says and you're surprised he's both still alive and younger than you thought he'd be.
Was* a legit commentator. That's some straight up appeasement rhetoric when we're talking about a adversary of the west. Allowing Russia to achieve their current goals would create a lack of food security in the west beyond what is currently happening. Ukraine is the largest wheat producer in the world. It's been called the "breadbasket" of Europe.
 

SpitfireV

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Was* a legit commentator. That's some straight up appeasement rhetoric when we're talking about a adversary of the west. Allowing Russia to achieve their current goals would create a lack of food security in the west beyond what is currently happening. Ukraine is the largest wheat producer in the world. It's been called the "breadbasket" of Europe.
Just because you disagree doesn't make him any less legitimate. He's got more experience than either of us and we don't have to agree with him but contributions like this do hold some value even if just to help us test our thoughts.
 

Gunz

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Just because you disagree doesn't make him any less legitimate. He's got more experience than either of us and we don't have to agree with him but contributions like this do hold some value even if just to help us test our thoughts.

He might be Dr. Strangelove, but he's got a lifetime of senior statesmanship and global political acumen in that old brain of his and is still able to make some sense. Whether or not it's good sense is a matter of opinion.
 

ThunderHorse

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Just because you disagree doesn't make him any less legitimate. He's got more experience than either of us and we don't have to agree with him but contributions like this do hold some value even if just to help us test our thoughts.

Letting people live on their laurels is what this world is built on, doesn't mean we should give credence to Abraham Simpson when he starts yelling at the clouds.
 

CQB

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He might be Dr. Strangelove, but he's got a lifetime of senior statesmanship and global political acumen in that old brain of his and is still able to make some sense. Whether or not it's good sense is a matter of opinion.
I've heard him interviewed recently & he's still pertinent. The view to give up territory is an interesting one, considering that it's already happened in three regions. There seems to me to be a realisation with the conflict that either it's time for a resolution or it will continue for years. He's always been controversial & my original view was he was an arch villain, but on reading some of his works I changed tack completely. Has anyone here actually read anything he's published? BTW he's writing another & at his age that's not bad.
 

Gunz

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I've heard him interviewed recently & he's still pertinent. The view to give up territory is an interesting one, considering that it's already happened in three regions. There seems to me to be a realisation with the conflict that either it's time for a resolution or it will continue for years. He's always been controversial & my original view was he was an arch villain, but on reading some of his works I changed tack completely. Has anyone here actually read anything he's published? BTW he's writing another & at his age that's not bad.

The Left stigmatized him as an arch villain, just like they did with Cheney. After time that image transcends mere politics until it's a commonly held impression. People like Kissinger and Cheney don't help themselves; neither projects warmth.
 

CQB

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The two are different, Cheney was VP whose job was to be there in case POTUS didn’t die, but he changed the office of VP to be more dynamic; Jan 6 & Mike Pence springs to mind but it’s late here & I’m 3 sheets to the wind. K was a Secretary of State & an advisor as well. The first chapters of On China are are succinct précis of how the Peoples Republic of Amnesia relates to every other nation. He has been very influential; Cambodia & the decision to get tough there is manifest in The Hague Convention of 1908 whereby a nation harboring forces that attack another is a legitimate target is fair game. (my reading, too drunk to BF to reference accurately & I’ll get back to you). This is the same IR law that was produced to go to Afghanistan to sort out AQ. War criminal? Be fucked of the left with their saggy tits, their hatred & their brown rice.
 

ThunderHorse

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I've heard him interviewed recently & he's still pertinent. The view to give up territory is an interesting one, considering that it's already happened in three regions. There seems to me to be a realisation with the conflict that either it's time for a resolution or it will continue for years. He's always been controversial & my original view was he was an arch villain, but on reading some of his works I changed tack completely. Has anyone here actually read anything he's published? BTW he's writing another & at his age that's not bad.

Conflict has been going on since 2014 in a low intensity manner in Donetsk. This was just full high intensity. So in the resolution phase I suppose.
 
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