Ukraine - Russia Conflict

[RackMaster]

How many times do the Ukrainian's have to lose significant troop losses, after being encircled or cut off? They seem to have a serious misunderstanding of the existence of tactical withdrawals. I get it, they don't want to give up territory but when their forces are dwindling, seemingly fast; losing that many troops doesn't make sense.

 

[AWP]

The US approved...what was, it? 40 billion USD in aid? That's a LOT of equipment...

...that the sky doesn't magically shit on Kyiv. And 40 billion in all forms of aid also doesn't magically show up at ports and airfields to ship to the Ukraine. I'm pro-Ukraine (more like I'm anti-Russia to be honest), but they need to understand nations could approve a trillion USD in aid and that stuff won't suddenly appear. They can scream for more of x, y, and z, but we've agreed to fund those materials. What we can't do is download tanks out of the cloud like nudes of your mom. (BTW, that makes for a big cloud)

I don't know if UA has paid attention, but we've kinda' fought a 20 year war where airlift was used extensively. Those plans and crews are tired, overworked, and at some point need a break. By that I mean, max effort flights to send aid to another nation might not be on TRANSCOM's to do list. Plenty of civilian cargo companies will step up, but that too takes money. How much of that 40 billion is going to Kalita Air, Evergreen...whoever flies 747's that can properly secure equipment? Those flights aren't cheap and those companies have other clients.

You know what could carry a lot of equipment? An An-225 which the Ukraine....aww, that's right. They left the world's largest airlifter in range of Soviet aircraft after several month's of intelligence and buildup pointing to a war. Dumbasses.

I'm starting to think neither side in this war knows a damn thing about logistics.

 

[AWP]

How many times do the Ukrainian's have to lose significant troop losses, after being encircled or cut off? They seem to have a serious misunderstanding of the existence of tactical withdrawals. I get it, they don't want to give up territory but when their forces are dwindling, seemingly fast; losing that many troops doesn't make sense.

(Friedrich Paulus has entered the chat)

 

[RackMaster]

It seems that from Zelensky, down, there's a severe lack of any real leadership.

 

[Marauder06]

How many times do the Ukrainian's have to lose significant troop losses, after being encircled or cut off? They seem to have a serious misunderstanding of the existence of tactical withdrawals. I get it, they don't want to give up territory but when their forces are dwindling, seemingly fast; losing that many troops doesn't make sense.

This is tactically disruptive but I think it makes strategic sense. They are much stronger in defensive positions, they can delay Russia's strategic plans, prolong the conflict, and make the Russians bleed. Since this is a war for territorial gains, there is a very real possibility that anything they give up might be lost to them forever in the eventual negotiated peace.

Plus, when the Ukrainian defenders eventually get wiped out (or, more likely, surrender) there is a fresh batch of real & imagined martyrs to feed the news cycle and keep the short-attention-span public focused on the war.

 

[RackMaster]

This is tactically disruptive but I think it makes strategic sense. They are much stronger in defensive positions, they can delay Russia's strategic plans, prolong the conflict, and make the Russians bleed. Since this is a war for territorial gains, there is a very real possibility that anything they give up might be lost to them forever in the eventual negotiated peace.

Plus, when the Ukrainian defenders eventually get wiped out (or, more likely, surrender) there is a fresh batch of real & imagined martyrs to feed the news cycle and keep the short-attention-span public focused on the war.

At the start of the war, I'd agree but after the loss of the Azov and if current daily losses are true. They can't afford these tactics any longer. They are inevitable giving up territory and losing large quantities of troops, at once.

 

[AWP]

You don't want to pay for the same land twice, but you also can't readily replace men and material, especially in the Ukraine's case. UA's playing a dangerous game trying to hold on to land, but unless they have an assembly line of Jango Fetts, they will run out of people before equipment.

 

[Marauder06]

War is ultimately a contest of competing wills. The Ukrainians are showing that they still have the will to fight, and to fight hard, and to sustain losses over a prolonged period. Like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can win by simply not losing until the superpower gets tired (or Putin dies) and they go home. I think theirs is the correct long-term strategy for now: strongpoint cities and make the Russians clear them out. It inflicts losses on Russians, inevitably gets noncombatants killed (good for propaganda purposes) and plays to Ukrainians' strengths in terms of small unit tactics and anti-armor weaponry.

 

[Blizzard]

War is ultimately a contest of competing wills. The Ukrainians are showing that they still have the will to fight, and to fight hard, and to sustain losses over a prolonged period. Like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can win by simply not losing until the superpower gets tired (or Putin dies) and they go home. I think theirs is the correct long-term strategy for now: strongpoint cities and make the Russians clear them out. It inflicts losses on Russians, inevitably gets noncombatants killed (good for propaganda purposes) and plays to Ukrainians' strengths in terms of small unit tactics and anti-armor weaponry.

I don't disagree but, in terms of will, I continue to be a bit dumbfounded, if not impressed (for lack of a better word) at Russia's commitment to throwing bodies at this conflict. Support at home appears strong (or at least strong enough) as well.

 

[AWP]

Support at home appears strong (or at least strong enough) as well.

I think years of indoctrination and Putin’s near iron grip on the country guarantee support. Plus, the propaganda about Nazis and tying that message to The Great Patriotic War coupled with a culture which throws bodies at the problem regardless of the costs…

Russians are predisposed to being controlled by a dictator.

 

[Jaknight]

Well isn’t this the same nation that lost

I don't disagree but, in terms of will, I continue to be a bit dumbfounded, if not impressed (for lack of a better word) at Russia's commitment to throwing bodies at this conflict. Support at home appears strong (or at least strong enough) as well.

Well isn’t this the same nation who lost 20 million to the Germans and kept fighting? I think the Russians will gladly keep throwing bodies into the grinder till they win or lose.

 

[pardus]

You don't want to pay for the same land twice, but you also can't readily replace men and material, especially in the Ukraine's case. UA's playing a dangerous game trying to hold on to land, but unless they have an assembly line of Jango Fetts, they will run out of people before equipment.

The Ukrainians are actually turning away thousands of recruits, mainly due to a lack of being able to equip and train them, but for now they are doing ok for bodies. That said, the Russians have a lot more, and an even greater amount of things that make the bodies hit the floor.

 

[pardus]

War in Ukraine reaches pivotal moment that could determine long-term outcome, intelligence officials say

 

[Gunz]

War is ultimately a contest of competing wills. The Ukrainians are showing that they still have the will to fight, and to fight hard, and to sustain losses over a prolonged period. Like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can win by simply not losing until the superpower gets tired (or Putin dies) and they go home. I think theirs is the correct long-term strategy for now: strongpoint cities and make the Russians clear them out. It inflicts losses on Russians, inevitably gets noncombatants killed (good for propaganda purposes) and plays to Ukrainians' strengths in terms of small unit tactics and anti-armor weaponry.

True...but the trick with winning by simply not losing is to stay alive long enough to win. Right now it's a straight-up slugging match. How long can Ukrainians stand the pummeling by superior forces before they're either beaten or they adopt hit n run, hide n wait like the NVA/VC/Taliban?

 

[Marauder06]

True...but the trick with winning by simply not losing is to stay alive long enough to win. Right now it's a straight-up slugging match. How long can Ukrainians stand the pummeling by superior forces before they're either beaten or they adopt hit n run, hide n wait like the NVA/VC/Taliban?

The Ukrainians have everything they need to win against the Russians:

1) will to fight
2) support of a major world power (in their case, several world powers)
3) sanctuary in nearby secure areas, where they can rest, refit, resupply, and move fighters in ad infinatum.

 

[pardus]

Two US Veterans now Russian POWs in Ukraine

 

[AWP]

Two US Veterans now Russian POWs in Ukraine

#FAFO

Dumbasses

 

[Gunz]

Two US Veterans now Russian POWs in Ukraine

It was just a matter of time.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Well, the Russian Duma has been debating raising the military entrance age above 40. They're running out of men, and are out of willing men. There's a general summons going to every veteran under 50 apparently and the enlistment offering is pretty decent I suppose. Except for the likelihood of death.

High Casualties: Russia Pulls Out All the Stops to Find Fresh Troops

Russia seems to be actually fighting according to its doctrine now. But at some point they run out of ordinance? Every city they take is almost complete rubble. Which will have an effect on the semi "pro-russian" Ukrainians. For the hardcore who actually identify as Russian, well they dgaf.

 

[pardus]

Dumbasses

How so?