United States & Gun Control discussion.

[TLDR20]

No doubt. He can wade into the mud and keep Hillary clean.

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He's my cynical, conspiracy theorist-ist view:

Right now the left is praying for this to be a hookup gone wrong or garden variety hate crime and the right is praying for it to be Islamic extremism. If this is a general hate crime against the gay community the anti-2A crowd can better push their agenda. If this is Islamic terrorism the anti-2A crowd has a much harder time trying to restrict gun sales. How do you approach Americans with the message of "yeah, this can come at you anyplace, anytime, but we want to restrict your rights in the name of safety and security?"

This is not my opinion******

Why would what you posted sway an opinion for someone anti-gun? Lets say he bought these weapons legally, we are being led to believe that he was investigated by the FBI, but may have been able to buy the requisite firepower to hold the Orlando Police at bay and murder 50 people.

Stricter background checks could have possibly kept him from buying a gun. An FBI investigation may have kept him from buying it with stricter laws. Limiting access to AR style rifles would make it more difficult to conduct mass killings of this scale.

*****Theses are things I heard this morning in response to last nights tragedy, this is what we need to have answers for.

 

[AWP]

This is not my opinion******

Why would what you posted sway an opinion for someone anti-gun? Lets say he bought these weapons legally, we are being led to believe that he was investigated by the FBI, but may have been able to buy the requisite firepower to hold the Orlando Police at bay and murder 50 people.

Stricter background checks could have possibly kept him from buying a gun. An FBI investigation may have kept him from buying it with stricter laws. Limiting access to AR style rifles would make it more difficult to conduct mass killings of this scale.

*****Theses are things I heard this morning in response to last nights tragedy, this is what we need to have answers for.

Valid points.
1. Are we enforcing laws on the books? How does a new set of laws work if we can't/ won't enforce what is already required?
2. What is technology's role? Would a better database or connectivity to existing databases solve many of our problems?
3. I can take a pump shotgun and with a month or two of training and some hand-eye coordination cause casualties on an epic scale. Also, how do we deal with what's out there? Any effort to remove guns from the street becomes confiscation and no one in their right mind will tackle that topic.
4. People want to hold gun manufacturers libel (which is stupid) so why aren't we also holding businesses libel for not providing adequate security?

Do we have the means to solve some of our problems without introducing any further restrictions? I'd rather spend money than take away rights which we may or may not see again.

 

[Brill]

Stricter background checks could have possibly kept him from buying a gun. An FBI investigation may have kept him from buying it with stricter laws.

Were you given any indication what would stricter checks look like? If a Federal investigation would mean loss of rights, how would that affect people running for office?

Press is reporting that he was a licensed armed security guard. Are people actually advocating for regularly updated background checks like a security clearance? I have to report all foreign travel...should gun owners (or potential borrowers) be required to do the same?

 

[nobodythank you]

It is a fallacy beyond measure to believe any amount of background checks or mental screenings can prevent all shootings. If that were true then no one would ever divulge classified information once vetted. Further more, having a security guard license in this state, does NOT authorize someone to carry a firearm off duty.

Any person who has never been in trouble before, who has developed a grudge, and has enough patience can pass any check or screening invented.

 

[Marine0311]

It is a fallacy beyond measure to believe any amount of background checks or mental screenings can prevent all shootings. If that were true then no one would ever divulge classified information once vetted. Further more, having a security guard license in this state, does NOT authorize someone to carry a firearm off duty.

Any person who has never been in trouble before, who has developed a grudge, and has enough patience can pass any check or screening invented.

Agree. Those are just barriers at the least.

 

[DA SWO]

This is not my opinion******

Why would what you posted sway an opinion for someone anti-gun? Lets say he bought these weapons legally, we are being led to believe that he was investigated by the FBI, but may have been able to buy the requisite firepower to hold the Orlando Police at bay and murder 50 people.

Stricter background checks could have possibly kept him from buying a gun. An FBI investigation may have kept him from buying it with stricter laws. Limiting access to AR style rifles would make it more difficult to conduct mass killings of this scale.

*****Theses are things I heard this morning in response to last nights tragedy, this is what we need to have answers for.

Did he use an AR?

I have been out of the loop for most of the last 24 hrs and just saw a UK report (daily mail).

 

[104TN]

Did he use an AR?

I have been out of the loop for most of the last 24 hrs and just saw a UK report (daily mail).

Initial reporting is saying an AR and a handgun purchased in the last 12 days.

 

[ThunderHorse]

It may just be time to make all of Albert Schweitzer's writings required reading in high school.

It's pretty clear that some parents are not teaching the value of life to their children.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Initial reporting is saying an AR and a handgun purchased in the last 12 days.

Read that clown was being investigated by the FBI, and was still able to pass the background check. Has me rethinking my stance on "on the terror watch list". Although I will admit, he would have been able to get the weapons any where. It does make me stand back and think "WTF".

 

[ThunderHorse]

I sort of don't see how he could be on a watch list and pass the background check...seems counterintuitive.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I sort of don't see how he could be on a watch list and pass the background check...seems counterintuitive.

That was a big discussion several month back. Primarily due to anyone being tossed in the no fly and terror list, without due process, etc. Bottom line, this dude should have been put on hold for 24hrs for purchase. Than rolled up as he came to pick up the weapons for some serious questioning.

 

[policemedic]

I sort of don't see how he could be on a watch list and pass the background check...seems counterintuitive.

No, it isn't. Think about it and the reason will come to you.

 

[DA SWO]

I sort of don't see how he could be on a watch list and pass the background check...seems counterintuitive.

They were watching to see if he was up to no good, apparently they feel asleep for a few minutes.
Even so, his status as an Armed Security Guard disturbs me more (and those creds get him access to weapons).

 

[nobodythank you]

(and those creds get him access to weapons).

No it doesn't. He had the same access to weapons with or without the license. The only thing that license confers is the ability to work as an armed security guard with certain types of weapons. The same weapons that are available to any other citizen. He does not get to buy anything different, or carry a weapon when not on duty. He does not even get to bypass the mandatory three day waiting period. Just wanted to clarify that viewpoint.

 

[DA SWO]

No it doesn't. He had the same access to weapons with or without the license. The only thing that license confers is the ability to work as an armed security guard with certain types of weapons. The same weapons that are available to any other citizen. He does not get to buy anything different, or carry a weapon when not on duty. He does not even get to bypass the mandatory three day waiting period. Just wanted to clarify that viewpoint.

Does G4S provide weapons? or tell you what you should have?
Do you leave your weapon on the job site, or bring it home?

 

[nobodythank you]

Does G4S provide weapons? or tell you what you should have?
Do you leave your weapon on the job site, or bring it home?

I do not know what their policies are regarding the use of weapons on duty. What I do know is that there are specific calibers they are confined to. If you are interested in the specifics, check out Florida Statute 493. The link goes straight to the info on security guard licenses. IIRC the guards I have seen have their own and bring them home with them. However, I believe there is enough room in the statute to allow the company to make policies that suit their needs.

 

[Brill]

Heard on the radio this afternoon the Senate Dems are attaching a rider to a commerce bill that FBI watchlist = no right to buy weapon.

Nation of laws my ass!

Senate Democrats push bill banning terrorist suspects from buying guns

Why is this stupid? I used to work with a US cit, long term civ employee in the IC, with a clearance, etc but had a name match with a watch lister.

He was not fun to TDY with.

The list is out of control and not effective at stopping a domestic incident. How many Paris, San Bernadino, Orlando, etc attackers were on the list?

 

[Red Flag 1]

Heard on the radio this afternoon the Senate Dems are attaching a rider to a commerce bill that FBI watchlist = no right to buy weapon.

Nation of laws my ass!

Senate Democrats push bill banning terrorist suspects from buying guns

Why is this stupid? I used to work with a US cit, long term civ employee in the IC, with a clearance, etc but had a name match with a watch lister.

He was not fun to TDY with.

The list is out of control and not effective at stopping a domestic incident. How many Paris, San Bernadino, Orlando, etc attackers were on the list?

Great idea, can it happen with any degree of success. I have not made a purchase at a gun show. Is there enough information available to dealers at gun shows to stop a sale to someone who should not have a weapon?

 

[Totentanz]

Great idea, can it happen with any degree of success. I have not made a purchase at a gun show. Is there enough information available to dealers at gun shows to stop a sale to someone who should not have a weapon?

FFLs at gun shows are bound by the same background check requirements as they are in their store.

 

[Red Flag 1]

Thanks, Amigo.