Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[Ooh-Rah]

Semper Fi, General Kelly.

General's 'greatest fear' that military might lower standards for women

WASHINGTON — The military will face pressure to lower standards in the future, if women are unable to meet the physical requirements to join front-line combat units or elite fighting forces, a ranking Marine Corps general said Friday.

Calling it his “greatest fear,” Gen. John F. Kelly, the commander of U.S. Southern Command who is slated to retire at the end of the month, predicted few female troops would be able to meet the physical demands in the traditionally all-male military occupations – primarily in the infantry, armor and special operations fields.

“There will be great pressure, whether it’s 12 months from now, four years from now, because the question will be asked whether we’ve let women into these other roles, why aren’t they staying in those other roles?” Kelly told reporters Friday at the Pentagon. “And the answer is … if we don’t change standards it will be very, very difficult to have any numbers – any real numbers – come into the infantry, or the Rangers or the SEALs.”

 

[Kheenbish]

I recently went to an "All Call" hosted by CSM Thetford, the Senior Enlisted Advisor of SOCOM, and he promised standards wouldn't be changed. He said the problem wasn't the products coming out of selections for special operations career fields, those have proven to pick the best for the job, but the problem was just allowing woman to participate. Did I believe him? Yes, but he won't be the one making the final decisions just a very big input into the matter.

 

[DocIllinois]

An excellent article on this subject.

Thank you, Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Newbold. Outstanding thoughts.


What Tempers the Steel of an Infantry Unit

 

[Devildoc]

I have tried to qualify this to men and women. To me what it comes down to is 'trust.' I hate the military-sports analogy....but, like on a football team, you have to have total, implacable, and instant trust that your teammate has your back, 100% of the time; as you have his. he knows his role as you know yours. You know what he is thinking when he is thinking it. Am I saying this cannot be built with women? That's exactly what I am saying.

I have been married 16, almost 17, years. To this day while I trust my wife I can never tell what she is thinking, I can never tell how she is going to react to me, and only because of God's law of marriage I am confident that no matter what I say or do she will not turn me into the chain of command/human resources for improper conduct/speech/whatever.

Because I have been with both all-male infantry units and mixed-gender non-infantry units I understand the differences in how these units operate. I will say in the mixed-gender ones just did not know how a female was going to react to any amount of assgrabbery or shenanigans. It was not uncommon for one guy to call another guy a pussy and be turned into the CoC by a female who just happened to overhear the comment and therefore needed to report a hostile work environment.

Any infantry unit, plain-Jane (see what I did there??), special operation, or otherwise, would spend that split second questioning a remark, a look, an utterance, instead of spending that split second doing what they are supposed to be doing, and it will cost lives.

 

[Gunz]

Women....can't live with em...pass the beer nuts.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

"Don't Take The Girl"





Platoon daddy was taking Pvt Snuffy patrolling

When he was eighteen years old

A little girl came through the Fob gate holdin' a 240 Bravo

Platoon dad looked down and smiled, said we can't leave her behind

Private I know you don't want her to go but someday you'll change your mind

And Snuffy said "Take Specialist Johnson, take Sergeant Thompson, take my best friend Bo

Hell take anybody in Signal section that you want as long as she don't go

Take any boy in the world

Daddy please don't take the girl



Same old boy
Same sweet girl

Ten miles down the road

He held her ruck and picked up her bullshit

In front of the locals like it was a god damn show

Haji came and pulled a gun

Grabbed her by the throat said "If you do what I tell you to, there won't be any harm"

And Snuffy said "fuck my life you stupid twat, your gonna get us all fucking killed,

Why weren't you pulling security for us

How did haji get into our patrol

Hey haji give it a whirl

Haji please just shoot the girl




Same old boy
Same sweet girl

Five day into the patrol

There's a little blood and she says "I have to go"

Doc says her coochie is fine but we'll have to leave

'Cause her vagina is bleeding fast and Snuffy hit his knees and there he prayed

Take the very breath you gave me

Take the heart from my chest

I'll gladly suck start my M4 if you'll let me

Make this my last request

Take me out of this world

Someone, please just shoot the girl



Platoon daddy

Was taking Pvt Snuffy patrolling

When he was eighteen years old

So I was reading this thread again, and thought of the Tim McGraw song "don't take the girl" and than decided it needed a rewrite of the lyrics. lol, I hope none of my sisters in arms take any offense, as its meant as a joke, but bring on the hate if you must.

 

[metalmom]

So I was reading this thread again, and thought of the Tim McGraw song "don't take the girl" and than decided it needed a rewrite of the lyrics. lol, I hope none of my sisters in arms take any offense, as its meant as a joke, but bring on the hate if you must.

This sister wont be hating on you. Just might have to slap you silly if we ever meet.haha. Great thread-but just starting to read it and have a ton to say already but want to read it all first. Be back with my 2 cents worth tomorrow.

 

[CDG]

MARSOC has its first female applicants.

First Female Marines Apply to MARSOC | Military.com

 

[Devildoc]

<snark on> I wonder if any of them are the ones that could not hack IOC? <snark off>

We knew it was coming. So many questions.....standards? CSO vs enablers?

I will be curious to see where this goes.

 

[Gunz]

Political pressure leads to numbers and quotas. And some swinging dick is always ready to give his superiors what they want to hear, and when it reaches the highest civilian political levels, what they want to hear are the numbers. They don't give a shit if Pfc Sally can't hump her share of squad organic gear, they want to be able to tell their media suck-ups how many Pfc Sallys they've passed through AIT or SOI or Ranger School or whatever.

And what do they mean by gender-neutral physical standards for CSOs? Are these the same standards MARSOC started out with, or have they been revised?

 

[Grunt]

The fish rots from the head downward! Just short of another administration changing the policy, integration and standards will change.

 

[DocIllinois]

So I was reading this thread again, and thought of the Tim McGraw song "don't take the girl" and than decided it needed a rewrite of the lyrics. lol, I hope none of my sisters in arms take any offense, as its meant as a joke, but bring on the hate if you must.

 

[metalmom]

Though I have read a lot of your thoughts and opinions I keep going back to what Viper 1 stated on the first page and fully agree with his opinion on all points. Back in the 80s there was a concern that if women were let into the Infantry-there would be a lot more male casualties because of their need to protect a female and 3 guys or more would run out to help her if she went down instead of maybe 1 or 2 to help their buddy Never bought that.When women were finally allowed in to Battle School I believe ony 1 or 2 made it. Rack is probably more in the know about that. I dont like what I heard if true that women are crying harassment down there unless it was a sexual offense. Im bringing up the old stuff because it is not much different from then than today. If someone can prove they are tough enough and qualify-whats the big deal. I for one am rooting for these women who are going after what they want and will stand behind them wishing them success. As Diamondback stated-bring on the hate if you must bros.:)

 

[Mac_NZ]

The link is NSFW

Apologies if it's been posted but I just spent 4 mins trying not to piss from laughter.

 

[Devildoc]

The link is NSFW

Apologies if it's been posted but I just spent 4 mins trying not to piss from laughter.

That was one of the funniest things I have seen.....

 

[Bypass]

The link is NSFW

Apologies if it's been posted but I just spent 4 mins trying not to piss from laughter.

Bwahahahaaa!!!!

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Okay, that vid was funny as fuck.

ETA - I cry every time I see that fucking dip cup. Damn does that bring back memories!

 

[Gunz]

Brave New World

New Strategy Will Change How Marines Train | Military.com


Forget all this bullshit about 21st Century combined arms etc.

What they are really saying here is that they are now faced with the ENORMOUS fucking retool of an organization that's been Man-Centric for 200+ years and are faced with the biggest challenge EVER to the organizational Marine Corps with the integration of women into boot camp, SOI, infantry, recon, special operations and other combat arms areas that have always been the realm of male Marines.

This is a fucking HUGE deal. They are couching it in subdued terms and official double-talk but peel away the veneer and this is all about becoming coed.

 

[DocIllinois]

Brave New World

New Strategy Will Change How Marines Train | Military.com


Forget all this bullshit about 21st Century combined arms etc.

What they are really saying here is that they are now faced with the ENORMOUS fucking retool of an organization that's been Man-Centric for 200+ years and are faced with the biggest challenge EVER to the organizational Marine Corps with the integration of women into boot camp, SOI, infantry, recon, special operations and other combat arms areas that have always been the realm of male Marines.

This is a fucking HUGE deal. They are couching it in subdued terms and official double-talk but peel away the veneer and this is all about becoming coed.

We're putting more troops back into war zones we just got out of that we weren't going to start putting troops back into.

This mixification of the Marine Corps better happen ricky tick, so y'all can be more ready to go after getting gender neutralized.

 

[Theirb123]

Not sure of the legitimacy just thought I'd share...anyone heard similar? Is this shit really starting?