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I don't believe women should be *other than the awesome @racing_kitty * and lowering the standards (if that holds true) is just another nail in the coffin.
Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion
- Thread starter AWP
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If it were done right, slowly, gradually, political pressure at a minimum, standards maintained in all categories, sure, why not capable women at the sharp edge of the formerly Men-Only departments? But the way it's being force-fed doesn't bode well.
I'm guessing--younger Marines set me straight if I'm wrong--that the Corps might be experiencing some of the problems that typically beset the military during post-war years. Maybe a few more discipline problems, drug and alcohol abuse on the rise, PTSD issues, reexamining itself and it's role. And if so, probably not the best time to expect a quick and seamless "mixification."
Great word, by the way, Doc.
...This mixification of the Marine Corps better happen ricky tick, so y'all can be more ready to go after getting gender neutralized.
I'm guessing--younger Marines set me straight if I'm wrong--that the Corps might be experiencing some of the problems that typically beset the military during post-war years. Maybe a few more discipline problems, drug and alcohol abuse on the rise, PTSD issues, reexamining itself and it's role. And if so, probably not the best time to expect a quick and seamless "mixification."
Great word, by the way, Doc.
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TLDR20
Verified SOF
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Reading that made me happy.
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My two favorite paragraphs:
“I’ve been on this committee for a year and I don’t think I’ve seen a more outrageous or ill-advised order from the service secretary to tell the Marines that they’re going to take boot camp — which has been honed and put together for the benefit of the American people over decades — and you’re going to order them to give a detailed plan in 15 days?” Sullivan said. “Is that even remotely possible? Why did you issue such an order when nobody on this committee thinks that it was remotely possible to integrate boot camp?”
...and...
But McCain faulted Mabus for not going to Twentynine Palms, California, and Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, to observe the study as it was happening.
“So you, with a straight face, make claims that the Marine study was flawed and biased, even if you didn’t go see the study being performed,” McCain said.
“I’ve been on this committee for a year and I don’t think I’ve seen a more outrageous or ill-advised order from the service secretary to tell the Marines that they’re going to take boot camp — which has been honed and put together for the benefit of the American people over decades — and you’re going to order them to give a detailed plan in 15 days?” Sullivan said. “Is that even remotely possible? Why did you issue such an order when nobody on this committee thinks that it was remotely possible to integrate boot camp?”
...and...
But McCain faulted Mabus for not going to Twentynine Palms, California, and Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, to observe the study as it was happening.
“So you, with a straight face, make claims that the Marine study was flawed and biased, even if you didn’t go see the study being performed,” McCain said.
He gets paid the big bu.. i mean.. he's in that cabinet mafia... i mean.. he's got that Executive schedule II rank.. i mean.. he has the best interest for the military: he knows best. He doesn't need to see the study, or how the Marine Corps operates for that matter.
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what a fucking shit show.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Mabus is the biggest schmuck in the DoD...god.
So what happens if we find ourselves doing Iraq 3.0?
With the dumbing down, running warriors off? Would we still win decisively? or take a shit-load of casualties?
IIRC, most of our loses came after hostilities "ended".
With the dumbing down, running warriors off? Would we still win decisively? or take a shit-load of casualties?
IIRC, most of our loses came after hostilities "ended".
Congress can do it, or the Courts can mandate it.
I wonder if the gender equality supporters considered this as a possibility?
I still believe there has to be a single standard for each MOS. There can be no equal but special integration. Infantry has a standard for a reason, special Ops has a higher standard for a reason - the reasons for the standards are dependent on the demands inherent in each of MOS's in Combat Arms. If you are in an FA unit, you better be able to cut charge and load gun, or you are a failure, and 155's are not light, if you're a tanker - breaking tread, loading, stowing etc require strength and technique, you have to be able to accomplish the tasks ... One standard, meet it or do something else.
DocIllinois
Verified Military
All very true.
Its also true that unit readiness can be affected when a female is sent home mid deployment if she gets pregnant.
(Or will 'equality' extend to keeping pregnant females in combat zones, because they "should" be able to finish out a tour like the men? Or could birth control become mandatory for deployed females, perhaps?)
And that M/F relationships within the same unit can be a distraction during training. Just keeping Snuffy off his goddamn cell phone can be a battle if those aren't banned completely on a rotation.
And if said M/F relationship within the same unit goes sour, its not always going to end in an amicable way, especially where most soldiers are still in their twenties. Necessary cohesion will take a huge hit.
And that all it takes is one asshole to label a female in his unit as 'easy' and the respect of her peers can tank.
I understand what your saying, BUT; men go home everyday because of non-combat injuries.
Basketball, volleyball and football kill unit readiness faster than pregnancy.
ID the baby daddy and hit both of them with UCMJ, though mid-tour leaves will still deplete the ranks.
That said, what if the two members are married? I've been deployed (Bosnia) where we had married couples who didn't abstain.
More distracting than M/M or F/F relationships?
Totally agree
happens already (most females who have deployed experience this, I have seen it), leaders need to kick joe in the ass when it happens.
Pregnancy or sexually based drama is a two-way street. Both parties are to blame and if men want to be seen as "not a part of the problem" then they need to behave accordingly.
"Equality" isn't something the women will bear alone and like it not "women in the...." is happening. Men need to get onboard and uphold their end of the deal ("No one is more professional than I" right?) before they can scream about favoritism. Keeping your house clean is the best "base" from which to launch criticism.
"Equality" isn't something the women will bear alone and like it not "women in the...." is happening. Men need to get onboard and uphold their end of the deal ("No one is more professional than I" right?) before they can scream about favoritism. Keeping your house clean is the best "base" from which to launch criticism.
We've gone down that road with the PESA tests, Physical Employment Standard Assessments, the exercises are all essentially the same, but there are different targets for different jobs, different distance, weights carried, reps required for different roles.
Rugby and Aussie rules regularly puts people out, my ankle issues started with landing on a mates foot after raking in a rebound during basketball training for the Battalion team.
We had a few married couples in a task force in East Timor. They were put in different AOs and had to put up with the same separation issues as the rest of us.
Brill
SOF Support
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
This should have been the first step, not the reaction.
TLDR20
Verified SOF
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I don't know that I think that is true. If they were not allowed in combat jobs, what were we going to draft them to do? We only need so many wheeled vehicle mechanics. Now that all jobs are open...draft them bitches.
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