Your 2024 Presidential Election Thread

Marauder06 said:
The thing is, I think this is affecting all of us.

The "Signature Injury" of the War on Terror Is Not PTSD. It's Low-T. • The Havok Journal

https://havokjournal.com/nation/veterans/quiet-professionals-and-low-t/

I have low-T too and am definitely not a Democrat. I'm also sure there are plenty of Dems with considerably higher T than me.
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Yea, it may be one of those evolutionary biology studies that puts too much stock into single mechanisms.

if I'm remembering the study correctly, one of the purposed reasons wasn't that "high T makes you Conservative" but that the weak-Dems may have actually had more in agreements with Republicans but gave "social" answers. I.E. TRT just made them honest.


- As an aside on the low T thing; I found out about two years ago that my T was much lower for my age (low 300s) than normal. The Doc explained this is actually super common in service members.
Apparently, we are more at risk of developing exercise induced hypogonadism, I.E. so much endurance training (without recovery) over years tanks your T. Throw in the effect that high cortisol and bad sleep have on T production and it seems like it may effect more of us than we'd think.
 
Cookie_ said:
Yea, it may be one of those evolutionary biology studies that puts too much stock into single mechanisms.

if I'm remembering the study correctly, one of the purposed reasons wasn't that "high T makes you Conservative" but that the weak-Dems may have actually had more in agreements with Republicans but gave "social" answers. I.E. TRT just made them honest.


- As an aside on the low T thing; I found out about two years ago that my T was much lower for my age (low 300s) than normal. The Doc explained this is actually super common in service members.
Apparently, we are more at risk of developing exercise induced hypogonadism, I.E. so much endurance training (without recovery) over years tanks your T. Throw in the effect that high cortisol and bad sleep have on T production and it seems like it may effect more of us than we'd think.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. If that's true, then we'd expect to see it in high-performing athletes as well? I wonder if that's the case.

I just thought that the low-T phenomenon with service members was too much jerking off in overheated Port-O-Potties. ;)
 
Cookie_ said:
Yea, it may be one of those evolutionary biology studies that puts too much stock into single mechanisms.

if I'm remembering the study correctly, one of the purposed reasons wasn't that "high T makes you Conservative" but that the weak-Dems may have actually had more in agreements with Republicans but gave "social" answers. I.E. TRT just made them honest.


- As an aside on the low T thing; I found out about two years ago that my T was much lower for my age (low 300s) than normal. The Doc explained this is actually super common in service members.
Apparently, we are more at risk of developing exercise induced hypogonadism, I.E. so much endurance training (without recovery) over years tanks your T. Throw in the effect that high cortisol and bad sleep have on T production and it seems like it may effect more of us than we'd think.
Click to expand...

Low 300s? Bud you were in the normal range. I did performance bloods when I was working out like 20+ hours/week. And mine were not in the 300s:(. At the time I did this I was 25. And endocrinologist was like "sleep study". And then I did that and I found out I had sleep apnea. Fun times.

I was like in the best shape of my life, but I felt super haggard and not recovering well. Maybe it was the duty assignment.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Low 300s? Bud you were in the normal range. I did performance bloods when I was working out like 20+ hours/week. And mine were not in the 300s:(. At the time I did this I was 25. And endocrinologist was like "sleep study". And then I did that and I found out I had sleep apnea. Fun times.

I was like in the best shape of my life, but I felt super haggard and not recovering well. Maybe it was the duty assignment.
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I was decently below 350, which for my age is the minimum level of normal range. Physically I felt fine, but I was having some of the psychological symptoms that made it worthwhile to get checked out.
 
Marauder06 said:
That's interesting. If that's true, then we'd expect to see it in high-performing athletes as well? I wonder if that's the case.

I just thought that the low-T phenomenon with service members was too much jerking off in overheated Port-O-Potties. ;)
Click to expand...
I thought that is how you raised your t levels. Wasn't that how they made Captain America?
 
Marauder06 said:
That's interesting. If that's true, then we'd expect to see it in high-performing athletes as well? I wonder if that's the case.
Click to expand...

No. High caliber or elite level (think national or world class level) athletes don't get to that point by training without rest and recovery. While they will have cycles of intense training, they also get to sleep in great beds, eat great food, and get the best in recovery aids (think massage, cold tanks, etc). I don't remember any of that being the case in the service.

Now, people that are over training, I fully expect to see the same thing. I'd expect it to occur in a lot of Ironman and marathon athletes that are good for their age group, but way over train and don't get enough rest/recovery because of day jobs, family life, and other social obligations.
 
Kaldak said:
No. High caliber or elite level (think national or world class level) athletes don't get to that point by training without rest and recovery. While they will have cycles of intense training, they also get to sleep in great beds, eat great food, and get the best in recovery aids (think massage, cold tanks, etc). I don't remember any of that being the case in the service.

Now, people that are over training, I fully expect to see the same thing. I'd expect it to occur in a lot of Ironman and marathon athletes that are good for their age group, but way over train and don't get enough rest/recovery because of day jobs, family life, and other social obligations.
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Look at what Formula 1 drivers endure. 90+ minutes with their heart rate around 170 bpm, pulling 5 lateral g's in multiple corners per lap. That's before we get into the temps endured and the pressure required to operate the brakes. Their neck muscles move 100-ish pounds for...90 minutes, whatever the duration of the race.
 
There's a ton of contractors on T, combat vets that lift and run bare minimum. I think the chronic stress has something to do with it. I've had mine tested over the last several years, anywhere from 350-450 starting in mid-late 30s. A ~30 y/o buddy of mine who power lifts and was strong AF and fast (at least for 1.5 mi.) was at 380.

Whatever the cause, some supplemental T will make you feel better. It's not unmanliness that's giving vets low T. The Dems OTOH, IDK.
 
Kaldak said:
No. High caliber or elite level (think national or world class level) athletes don't get to that point by training without rest and recovery. While they will have cycles of intense training, they also get to sleep in great beds, eat great food, and get the best in recovery aids (think massage, cold tanks, etc). I don't remember any of that being the case in the service.

Now, people that are over training, I fully expect to see the same thing. I'd expect it to occur in a lot of Ironman and marathon athletes that are good for their age group, but way over train and don't get enough rest/recovery because of day jobs, family life, and other social obligations.
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That makes sense. And presumably they're not dealing with the stress of people actively trying to kill them, or their colleagues.
 
Kaldak said:
High caliber or elite level (think national or world class level) athletes don't get to that point by training without rest and recovery. While they will have cycles of intense training, they also get to sleep in great beds, eat great food, and get the best in recovery aids (think massage, cold tanks, etc). I don't remember any of that being the case in the service...
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I think you are dead on with that post!

During my few years of service in the military - I participated in what some people may or may not refer to as "a deployment" and rarely - if ever - did I have access to what might be described as great beds, great food, and great recovery aids.

Now - with that said - there are a few things I've noticed over the years:
-alcoholics 'build a tolerance' to booze
-drug addicts 'build a tolerance' to drug
-adrenaline junkies chase increasingly dangerous pursuits

So what? The remainder of this post is PURE conjecture and has no basis in science, or fact based medical reseach - much like Saint Anthony Faucis position on wearing masks and making six-feet the standard for soical distancing during the during the pandemic.
...thats the so what.

So, here we go:
Athletes and law enforcement live lifestyles that may or may not cause them extended periods of high stress and high fatigue - but it is usually on a schedule. Then, once the game is over, or their shift is over, and they go home and sleep in their own bed.

Military folks get sent away - they get sketchy chow - sometimes they eat shit out of a plastic sack - sometimes they get t-ration meat loaf - sometimes they get well done steaks with crab legs from the messhall ran by Haliburton/KBR (a defense contractor that totally did NOT in any way whatsoever help Darth Chaney enjoy millions of dollars in profit from the GWOT) and sometimes these "deployed" service members locally sourced couscous and uninspected goat meat covered in some undetermined type of spicy red sauce.
What I am trying to say, is that "deployed" service members are operating under a different paradigm than elite athletes and law enforcement.

Service members don't always get to go home to sleep in their own bed at the end of a 6 hour or 10 hour or 16 hour or 36 hour shift. Sometimes their exercise is limited to whatever they can dream up at the FOB since they don't have a gym available to them. They can't always just go out on a long run to decompress - and a long ruck march might mean that they are simply doing a patrol 'outside the wire.' Their mind s are in overdrive the entire time, hoping they don't or step on (or drive over) something that may cost them their life. As a result, their bodies are constantly trying to produce peak levels of testosterone and other delicious natural endorphins that lead to things like toxic masculinity and systemic male privilege.
...rinse and repeat.

After a string of these things that may or may not be called "deployments" - it seems reasonable to believe that just like drug addicts, alcoholics, and adrenaline junkies become accustomed to their poison - military folks might become involuntarily accustomed to this constant and irregular dump of testosterone and other delicious natural endorphins that lead to things like toxic masculinity and male privilege.

The delicious natural chemicals that their bodies produce is almost never in consistent amounts and almost never with a regularity that they might want. As a result, their bodies rely on "spur of the moment" as the signal to produce these delicious natural chemicals that make us temporarily awesome. Then - this entire demographic STOPS DOING most of the things that conditioned their bodies to produce endorphins. Now that there is no longer a "spur of the moment" demand - the body just sort of adopts 'bankers hours' when it comes to producing these delicious endorphins that lead to toxic masculinity and systemic male privilege.

Just like an alcoholic suffers from delirium tremens (the DTs) or a drug addicts suffers from withdraw - isn't it possible that the veterans having problems with - "interrelated health and functional impairments including traumatic brain injury effects; endocrine dysfunction; sleep disturbance; obstructive sleep apnea; chronic joint/back pain, orthopedic problems, and headaches; substance abuse; depression and suicide; anger; worry, rumination, and stress reactivity; marital, family, and community dysfunction; problems with sexual health and intimacy; being "on guard" or hypervigilant; memory, concentration, and cognitive impairments; vestibular and vision impairments; challenges of the transition from military to civilian life; and common existential issues" - are just suffering the same kind of physical and mental response to theirs bodies change in its ability to dump those delicious endorphins into their system?

I'm not sure it should be called "Operator Syndrome" - that beloved source of knowledge we call Wikipedia says that a syndrome is "a set of medical signs and symptoms which are correlated with each other and often associated with a particular disease or disorder. The word derives from the Greek σύνδρομον, meaning "concurrence" and that when a syndrome is paired with a definite cause, it becomes a "disease"
...like "alcoholism"
...or "sex addiction"
...or liberalism

A mildly observant person might look at this situation and see that there might just be a cause - maybe we should call it "Operator Disease"
Now, truth in lending - I don't have it - because much like Dwight Shrute - I can raise and lower my blood pressure, my cholesterol, testosterone, and all of my other endocrine levels through sheer concentration - if for no other reason than to lower them back to their normal levels. Any problems that I might exhibit that resemble "Operator Syndrome" are exhibited purely for my own entertainment.

Please remember, the contents of this post have been PURE conjecture with no basis in science, or fact based medical reseach - much like Saint Anthony Faucis position on wearing masks and making six-feet the standard for soical distancing during the during the pandemic.
...that is all.
 
Box said:
After a string of these things that may or may not be called "deployments" - it seems reasonable to believe that just like drug addicts, alcoholics, and adrenaline junkies become accustomed to their poison - military folks might become involuntarily accustomed to this constant and irregular dump of testosterone and other delicious natural endorphins that lead to things like toxic masculinity and male privilege.
Click to expand...
And on top of all that, there is the pre and between deployment train up periods where, as best as can be replicated, the same stressors are presented to the subjects to prepare them, somewhat, for life in a forward area...throw Ranger School, SERE training, the Q course, BUD-S, and other prerequisites into the mix and you have a life full of entertainment...
 
First, not sure how we're this deep in the presidential election thread with this. Talk about the weeds.

Second, there's some pretty good data on the state of servicemen health post-deployment and post-combat. I'm getting ready to board a plane now so can't really get into it, but suffice it to say that our physiology is all jacked up, and our hearts and cardiovascular system are significantly aged.
 
Devildoc said:
First, not sure how we're this deep in the presidential election thread with this. Talk about the weeds.

Second, there's some pretty good data on the state of servicemen health post-deployment and post-combat. I'm getting ready to board a plane now so can't really get into it, but suffice it to say that our physiology is all jacked up, and our hearts and cardiovascular system are significantly aged.
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Damn - you have struck gold on that one. The voice of reason and all that jazz...
My apologies for posting such a "thread drift" but now, I feel obligated to somehow try and tie my wandering post back into the topic of presidential elections...

Low-T can cause depression: which is how I feel EVERY election cycle when I am faced with the cold hard facts that we are often forced into voting for the lesser of all evils and almost never for who is actually "best for the country"
...it is also very depressing to see the blind political loyalty associated with the extremes of both sides of the aisle.

Low-T causes difficulty with concentration and memory, which is why we exist in the context of all in which we live, and what came before us - after all, do you think we just fell out of a coconut tree? C'mon man.
...you know: the thing

Low-T causes a decrease in endurance; it means you can't just keep watching an entire political speech anymore - you are tired and drowsy five minutes into it - you are exhausted at hearing Donald Trump saying the same Donald Trump things over and over and over and over...
...and you can barely tolerate more than 90 seconds of that cackling orator from Kalifournya that was one of the first ones to drop from the primaries when she ran, then earned some of the WORST approval ratings ever for a VP - only to be told that somehow, she is suddenly one of the best things to EVER happen to this great nation of ours.
I am exhausted because of my decreased endurance levels.

Low-T causes a reduced sex drive and lets face it - aren't we ALL sick and tired of getting fucked by the political class that is driving this nation into the ground?

Lastly, low testosterone levels can cause slow growth - much like the Harris/Biden economy.
 

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