2016 Presidential Race

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Interesting observation for the week:

We went to the NC state fair on Thursday. The DNC/HRC table had a few visitors; the RNC/Trump table was absolutely mobbed. The Trump stickers outnumbered the Clinton stickers 50:1.

We vote in a very heavily dem area, my wife said that when she went to vote, half the people in line had Trump stickers. That is unheard of in our town.

Not saying Trump wins NC, just an observation.

In other news I just found out our neighbor died this week. Maybe I will vote twice.
 
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Okay. I am done with this thread. I already voted. Have fun with your rigged election. :rolleyes:

What took so long? I was taking the piss three pages ago.

I stand by the suggestion that Donnie voters should just not vote, though. Don't lower yourselves, it's all a sham!

They should confine activities to standing outside polling places, whining about the media and former presidents, IMO. I'll give a polite wave.
 
Interesting observation for the week:

We went to the NC state fair on Thursday. The DNC/HRC table had a few visitors; the RNC/Trump table was absolutely mobbed. The Trump stickers outnumbered the Clinton stickers 50:1.

We vote in a very heavily dem area, my wife said that when she went to vote, half the people in line had Trump stickers. That is unheard of in our town.

Not saying Trump wins NC, just an observation.

In other news I just found out our neighbor dies this week. Maybe I will vote twice.

They were simply Democrats acting like Trump supporters so the real supporters would stay home on 28 November. I'll be out in force on that day!!!:-"
 
What's really funny is that you and a few others here have fallen into the exact thing you hated the most (during this election cycle): a circle jerk of like minded ideology. Sorry, you can't keep justifying corruption when there is damning evidence of said corruption from the guilty party (read Democratic party and Hillary). But! But! Trump was a Meanie Schmeanie!!!!! Sounds like my 7 year old.

I will grant you that the Repubs are guilty of their own brand of corruption. As is evidenced by many long time staunch R's endorsing Hillary. It is also likely that they are scared shitless of their own data security and are scrubbing everything they can. Sometimes, conspiracy theories turn out to be real :-o:-"
I dont know, bro- if your 7 year old knows Trump is a shitty candidate, maybe think about giving them more responsibility around the house. They sound like they have a good head on their shoulders.

I do like the moral relativism you sort of alluded to that's happened this entire cycle.

Team A- Commits act which is considered a crime by opposing team.
Team A- "We did nothing illegal (because we said so and they are liars and there are no charges)- more importantly, LOOK AT WHAT TEAM B DID THAT IS ALSO ILLEGAL THEREFORE WE ARE INNOCENT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ACCUSE US OF A CRIME BECAUSE THAT MAKES THEM A HYPOCRITE BUT IT ALSO MAKES THEM GUILTY OF THE CRIME THEY COMMITTED AND MAKES US INNOCENT OF OURS!"
Team B- "YEAH WHAT THEY SAID!"

Yeah, sometimes conspiracy theories turn out to be true- like the Boston Bombing False Flag, the massive underground base under Denver's airport, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Wait, sorry- those are just a load of horseshit. Voter rigging and a thoroughly corrupt political system organizing tens of thousands of people in order to affect your personal belief system and presidential candidate though?! Yeah, the fix is definitely in.

Maybe get a tin foil hat fitting.
 
I dont know, bro- if your 7 year old knows Trump is a shitty candidate, maybe think about giving them more responsibility around the house. They sound like they have a good head on their shoulders.

I do like the moral relativism you sort of alluded to that's happened this entire cycle.

Team A- Commits act which is considered a crime by opposing team.
Team A- "We did nothing illegal (because we said so and they are liars and there are no charges)- more importantly, LOOK AT WHAT TEAM B DID THAT IS ALSO ILLEGAL THEREFORE WE ARE INNOCENT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ACCUSE US OF A CRIME BECAUSE THAT MAKES THEM A HYPOCRITE BUT IT ALSO MAKES THEM GUILTY OF THE CRIME THEY COMMITTED AND MAKES US INNOCENT OF OURS!"
Team B- "YEAH WHAT THEY SAID!"

Yeah, sometimes conspiracy theories turn out to be true- like the Boston Bombing False Flag, the massive underground base under Denver's airport, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Wait, sorry- those are just a load of horseshit. Voter rigging and a thoroughly corrupt political system organizing tens of thousands of people in order to affect your personal belief system and presidential candidate though?! Yeah, the fix is definitely in.

Maybe get a tin foil hat fitting.
Not at all what I said, but yeah let's just twist words. The 7 year old comment was meant to highlight the ridiculousness of the majority of comments I've read for this election. The only shitty candidate is the one who has been proven a failure in government for 30 years. The one who stole the nomination from another candidate through legally questionable methods. The one who is a criminal and escaped justice through improper and ethically dubious means with the assistance of a corrupt administration.

If you want to jump on the "victim" bandwagon, then how quickly we forget the candidate that attacked, coerced, and demeaned those women who proved they had affairs with her husband. But hey, false accusations are no big deal if they haven't happened to you or your loved ones.

Additionally, I never alluded to anything. I merely pointed out that both sides have their dirty parts. The big difference, at present there is only suspicion that the Rs are dirty. The Ds are proven dirty with the recent wiki leaks dump. How quickly we want to ignore the massive corruption and asshatery afoot with HRC, but want to get tied up in knots over a candidate that is too brash.

You can allude to all the wacky conspiracies out there. However, sometimes they are true. Most times not. But sure, assume all you like. As for voter fixing, lol. Yeah, I wish there was a treasure trove of recorded conversations that showed the intent of a political organization. You know, somewhere that correspondence was written down that could show collusion behind the scenes with the expressed intent of influencing an election. Oh wait! There Is! I guess I can return my 7 1/4 hat to the shop.
 
I actually don't like either of them. My backing of Trump is more of the "I'd vote for a dirty sock before I'd vote for Hillary" kind of thing. That said, from a policy perspective, I don't see any of these that I don't agree with:

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/CONTRACT_FOR_THE_VOTER.pdf

There are a couple that I question whether he can actually do, but from a policy perspective I like all of them.
 
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Whoooooooa! Easy, guy. No one is bashing your "political outsider billionaire" any more than they're bashing "crooked Hillary". I don't much care to defend either, and didn't vote for either. I wasn't twisting words or alluding to anything- I said exactly what I meant. I didn't "allude" to any wacky conspiracies- I am openly saying that most conspiracy theories are bullshit and this voter rigging conspiracy is just another. I included 11 examples of bullshit conspiracy theories that are more "founded" and "have more proof" than widespread voter fraud. Now, if you inferred some deeper meaning, well, that's on you. Maybe "alluded" wasn't the best word- displayed, maybe? Provided an example of? Those are closer to what my intent was. I should have said "You displayed a central theme of what this entire election has been about".

This whole election has been about "the lesser of two evils". Even some folks that are actually focused on policy (shout to @compforce for being the only one to do this consistently, kudos and thank you and that's not sarcastic in any way) still resort to "his policy is solid AND he's the lesser of two evils". Guess what? The moral dilemma of "lesser of two evils" means you're still arguing for an evil.

Also, try and use words like "alleged" and "possible" when you're referencing things that you don't know about for sure. It preserves your intellectual integrity. For instance, if even one of those women didn't make a false allegation you'll end up looking like a dickhead that bashes sexual assault victims. Isn't that what your hated celebrity anti-crush Hillary does? Goes after women claiming sexual assault? Why would you want to be akin to her if you despise her so? Well, unless of course you're saying you know for a fact that the all those allegations are false- is that what you're saying?

Keep the hat. I am sure you'll need it come Nov 9th if your horse gets beat. If he DOES win- well then, he's the only evil left. No more comparisons, it's only his actions as they stand on their own and not in comparison to someone worse. You think that "national biased media" was rough on Obama and Bush? Get ready for a field day that lasts however long his term ends up being- mainly because of the sheer amount of material.

And everyone that supported Trump so vehemently will have their own words ringing in their heads with every political misstep, every 5 am tweet, every new accuser. Or if Hillary wins, there are tons of people that did the same thing the other way- new emails, old charges, blah blah blah. You have her term to square the circle of being OK with voting for someone with her record.

How about this for the lesser of two evils- I might be a stupid, condescending, ill informed, cocky dude that has a mediocre career in SOF and an even more mediocre career as a general human- but at least I didn't sign my name to either one of these degenerates with a straight face.
 
Actually, yeah there is a lot more bashing one way than the other, but that is to be expected and I could care less. Yes allude was a poor choice. Now that you have expanded on what you meant vs what you said, I can see where you are coming from. I still think your idea that widespread voter fraud is akin to "Bush sent Katrina" is short sighted, and more importantly, wrong. However, you're free to believe as you wish. Just because one of the many "reputable" news outlets have failed to pay attention to fraud does not mean it does not exist. It also does not mean that someone who thinks there is a measure of truth to the issue is a conspiracy nutjob either. Is it so hard to make the logical connection that if the Democrats cheated their own party, that they would not cheat the American citizens? That the plethora of information coming to light shows a clear attempt to influence the election? Regardless, if it is or is not there no none is going to do much about it anyway.

As to the lesser of two evils idea, yeah possibly. I can acknowledge how people see Trump, and I frankly don't care. I equate it to the prudes that look at you funny if they hear you say fuck, or cock, or any other word that doesn't conform to their idea of societal bliss. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for a second that Trump is the messiah, or that he can make good on the majority or his ideas. However, as I have said from the start, he is an outsider that stands the highest chances of effecting real change to the political system. Not the false hope and change promised 8 years ago that has many people regretting their choices. He has already, thankfully, caused the Republican party to slowly implode and forced irrevocable change. The same is likely to happen to the rest of the system if he keeps to only half of what he promises. As I said before, short of bloody conflict (which none of us here want), this is the only chance at real change for our political system in many of our lifetimes. Sure I agree with most of his positions, but some I could do without (religion & abortion).

Respectfully, I don't need to be lectured (forgive me if I read that wrong) on intellectual honesty, or about things I don't know for sure. I never said that all of the accusations on either side were real or fake. However, as someone who has taken more than a few sexual assault/rape reports, the majority of times (admittedly that I have encountered) they are reported, they are false and primarily used to secure free social services or to get revenge on someone. Would it surprise you to know that in this state, domestic violence and sexual violence (unofficially when it is male on female) are the only two crimes where you will NOT be prosecuted for filing a false report? The reason? Because they do not want to discourage reporting. Yeah, happened to me, my brother, and more. It is not fun to be the subject of an accusation of that nature or to be interrogated as a criminal. Which pisses me off more than you can imagine because it distracts from those who truly need help, and places a stigma against those whose only crime was to trust someone.

In the end, I can look myself in the mirror if I vote for him because he represents the best likelihood of fixing the fucked system we find ourselves in. In the same vain, I maybe a dumb ex cop/paratrooper/student/deviant that was fooled by the promise of change, but I cannot in good conscience vote for someone who has left Americans to die, violated national security, flaunted their corruption, and generally holds the American people and system in disdain as a candidate for the highest office in the land. As fucked as out country is, I still truly believe it is the best place on the face of this earth. Hope that helps to clear up any miscommunication.
 
As fucked as out country is, I still truly believe it is the best place on the face of this earth. Hope that helps to clear up any miscommunication.
That's fair, and there's no drama on this end. I would be somewhat of a hypocrite if I didn't accept the same as I give. I appreciate open, honest, and sometimes aggressive discourse more than anything else. I am not lecturing, nor do I care to. I feel as if you're wrong in saying things with authority which you can't possibly verify, regardless of previous experience. I suppose it sucks (if I am to believe you at face value) that you and many close to you have been accused of false sexual assault.

All I am saying is this- don't imply or say outright that you know something you don't. If you feel like that's me telling you what to do, well, I am not sure what to say. If your issue is with getting called on that in public- again, not sure what to say.


When you say that you think Trump is the best alternative to a "bloody conflict" what exactly do you mean? I don't want to make any leaps but I feel as if that is either hyperbole or truly worrying.
 
There is no alleged when it comes to Hillary, only un-prosecuted. But, the media, who is supposed to be some type of honest broker in this doesn't care. I have decision to make tomorrow, whether I vote for Harambe, The Rock, or Trump. Once I make it, stuff that ballot in the mail and hopefully California turns something other than blue.

I have no issue with Trump suing his accusers for libel provided he didn't do it, which based on circumstance I find them all coming out as suspicious.
 
There is no alleged when it comes to Hillary, only un-prosecuted. But, the media, who is supposed to be some type of honest broker in this doesn't care. I have decision to make tomorrow, whether I vote for Harambe, The Rock, or Trump. Once I make it, stuff that ballot in the mail and hopefully California turns something other than blue.

I have no issue with Trump suing his accusers for libel provided he didn't do it, which based on circumstance I find them all coming out as suspicious.
FIRST of all, don't you DARE bring Harambe into this. That gorilla was the best of us. THE BEST OF US.
 
The past 8 years had no small input from HRC directly, and look where we are nationally, and internationally. Continue this path? No thanks. Last thing I need to say, as votes are already being cast

As to watering trees, etc...This isn't the only forum or medium I have heard allusions to this.

A large portion of the US, believe that the only reason HRC wasn't even charged for all the shit she has pulled is because of the current administration combined with their family being past administration as well, and the political ammunition and inertia the two combined bring.

There is a further segment within the whole, which believes the system as it stands now, especially having seen the DNC actually fully undermining one of their other candidates at the behest of HRC, is broken beyond the ability to repair with the ballot.

Fair and honest elections are seemingly becoming something of the past, especially with the pushback for voter verification, transparency as to where and who is funding campaigns, etc.....and that due to the combined issues as a whole, voting via other methods may very well be necessary.
 
That's fair, and there's no drama on this end. I would be somewhat of a hypocrite if I didn't accept the same as I give. I appreciate open, honest, and sometimes aggressive discourse more than anything else. I am not lecturing, nor do I care to. I feel as if you're wrong in saying things with authority which you can't possibly verify, regardless of previous experience. I suppose it sucks (if I am to believe you at face value) that you and many close to you have been accused of false sexual assault.

All I am saying is this- don't imply or say outright that you know something you don't. If you feel like that's me telling you what to do, well, I am not sure what to say. If your issue is with getting called on that in public- again, not sure what to say.


When you say that you think Trump is the best alternative to a "bloody conflict" what exactly do you mean? I don't want to make any leaps but I feel as if that is either hyperbole or truly worrying.
Same here, I will admit to being passionate.

Understand that I did not say that all allegations are false. Merely that a large number of them turn out to be such. Do I have an academic study to prove it? No, nor do I require one unless I am within the context of a courtroom. Otherwise, like you I am human and form my own opinions based on the available data.

I am going to presume that the context of your statement is in relation to the sexual assault issue. The issue I had was with the appearance that I am making wild guesses. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't mind being called out for being wrong. Nor will I sit idly by if I believe I am right. However, given the information at hand, BC has been proven to have had multiple affairs (which in and of itself is meaningless), and accusations of sexual misconduct. To the point that trial was averted because victims were paid settlements. Worse yet HRC attacked the victims far worse than Trump has his. It is one thing to stand by your spouse. It is another to use fear, intimidation, and threats to subdue victims. That in and of itself is akin to witness tampering. Where as DJT has admitted to having affairs, but not had to pay off accusers (admittedly yet). Again, I am not saying that Trump's accusers are lying, however, we also don't need to jump the gun and fawn over a group of people that make a convenient claim one month out from an election. Most importantly because there are virtually no criminal penalties for falsehoods concerning the accusers. It is a win win for them and that is where the system is broken. Nothing can be verified within the time frame provided.

As for the bloody conflict comment, I did not mean to imply that a revolution is imminent. On the other hand I don't believe it is simple hyperbole either. Think of it this way, both parties maintain a strong hold on our society. An outside candidate that is uncontrollable is capable of upsetting the balance and those who stand to lose the most are those in power. It has already been demonstrated that both parties maintain an undeniable influence in the release and reporting of information to the public. Therefore it is logical to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that either party will work towards changing the dynamic they hold with each other and the public. Could there be change from within? Sure, given a couple of centuries. Hence the statement about within our lifetimes. In short, it will take an outsider who cannot be controlled to change or wreck the system for something better. Personally, if we are dreaming about changes, I would want to see something along the lines of how things played out in Starship Troopers (book, not movie). Then again let us all wish for pretty princesses and beasts for all.
 
A general question for the anti-Hillary/pro-Trump/pro-Meteor crowd: what does a "rigged election" mean to you?

Do you mean that some element within the election system is conspiring to change the outcome (via voter fraud, tampered ballots, etc)? Do you mean it as something more abstract, as in the media won't allow a Trump figure to win? Perhaps something else entirely?
 
A general question for the anti-Hillary/pro-Trump/pro-Meteor crowd: what does a "rigged election" mean to you?

Do you mean that some element within the election system is conspiring to change the outcome (via voter fraud, tampered ballots, etc)? Do you mean it as something more abstract, as in the media won't allow a Trump figure to win? Perhaps something else entirely?

Bernie is probably most qualified to answer that one.
 
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A general question for the anti-Hillary/pro-Trump/pro-Meteor crowd: what does a "rigged election" mean to you?

Do you mean that some element within the election system is conspiring to change the outcome (via voter fraud, tampered ballots, etc)? Do you mean it as something more abstract, as in the media won't allow a Trump figure to win? Perhaps something else entirely?

Umm, Bernie, DNC, etc? Your own party DID IT and you're asking this question..... really?
 
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