2016 Presidential Race

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It's happened a few times.

I still distinctly remember businessman Ross Perot (dividing the Conservatives), who cost Bush I a 2nd term and gave us Bill Clinton and the "Assault Weapons Ban".

Taught us 2nd Amendment advocates a huge lesson. Bill Clinton's presidency is the reason we have a Tea Party and a rabidly staunch far Right.

Freefalling said:
The last time conservatives were divided a Clinton moved into the White House.
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Agreed. It is scary to see how broken up Conservatives are. We need to rally up so that we do not bring another Clinton in. I think we can count on Cruz to lead this country and help us prosper. He is the only one with a record of making stuff happen in Washington and he does not back down. Trumps history is wishy washy. Cruz is the closest thing to Reagan we have as an option I believe. And he has class.
 
Sean Wilson said:
Agreed. It is scary to see how broken up Conservatives are. We need to rally up so that we do not bring another Clinton in. I think we can count on Cruz to lead this country and help us prosper. He is the only one with a record of making stuff happen in Washington and he does not back down. Trumps history is wishy washy. Cruz is the closest thing to Reagan we have as an option I believe. And he has class.
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It is about time conservatives are shaking in their boots. For a while now the party has been divided and fractured by bullshit religious ideological differences that have distanced them from their voter base. Thereby dividing their voting power. This is turning point for the party where it will either evolve and come out stronger, or die in the wind. The voters in the party need to realize that the good old days are gone and past. The Democrats/Liberals keep handing the Republicans/Conservatives their asses because they are looking towards the future (as fucked as their future view is). Look at the last 4 years as an example of Republicans that have bowed to Democrat pressure out of fear of looking bad.

In short, the party being in disarray will force it to evolve or die. Which is what is desperately needed right now. The establishment/status quo is not working anymore. While neither party has figured that simple fact out, the Liberal/Democrat party has at least figured out how to fool their side into believing that anything they are doing is for the greater good.
 
You are correct. It's just an illustration of some of the silliness Cruz resorted to while on his quest to hold the government hostage.
 
ke4gde said:
In short, the party being in disarray will force it to evolve or die.
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And this is nothing new. The GOP today ain't Reagan's GOP, and if John Fitzgerald Kennedy were alive today he would be casted as either a moderate Republican or even a Libertarian.

One of the big problems with the GOP is that it can't figure out what it wants to be next.
 
Devildoc said:
And this is nothing new. The GOP today ain't Reagan's GOP, and if John Fitzgerald Kennedy were alive today he would be casted as either a moderate Republican or even a Libertarian.

One of the big problems with the GOP is that it can't figure out what it wants to be next.
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It is new, because now the party establishment is running scared of Trump. @x SF med is correct. Let's keep the same old rhetoric in place and not make any changes for the better, while keeping us gainfully employed at the expense of those we serve. If I didn't know better, I would think we were talking about the other party.

Also, which part of the party? The fanatical Tea Party, the hardcore religious right, or the everyday person who believes in a fiscally strong, healthy national defense, 2nd Amendment loving, let other people do what they want (socially) as long as it doesn't bother me average person? The party is fracturing.
 
@ke4gde ... J, may take on it - it's not the any one party - it is the nation:
The country is fracturing - the sheeple, the controlled, are being herded by the wolves who are at the moment looking like the sheepdogs. And the wolves are saying, let us protect you, all you have to do is allow us to take care of you, give us your constitutionally guaranteed rights, let us proclaim by executive fiat, let us take what you produce and give it to others... and you will be safe, and you will be equal, and you will not have to worry about how you've given dictators control.... Until it is too late, and the vilification of the true sheepdogs is complete.... because the sheepdogs think differently, speak their minds, want to protect but not control... but do so by violent means when necessary, and are not as vocal and flowery as the dictators... the sheepdogs scare you because they are vocal about the danger, but ignored by you - and the wolves are lulling you to sleep, to make meals of you and your children because it sounds good and peaceful to be controlled and penned and subdued...
 
ke4gde said:
It is new, because now the party establishment is running scared of Trump. @x SF med is correct. Let's keep the same old rhetoric in place and not make any changes for the better, while keeping us gainfully employed at the expense of those we serve. If I didn't know better, I would think we were talking about the other party.

Also, which part of the party? The fanatical Tea Party, the hardcore religious right, or the everyday person who believes in a fiscally strong, healthy national defense, 2nd Amendment loving, let other people do what they want (socially) as long as it doesn't bother me average person? The party is fracturing.
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It's not new. If you go back to transcripts of debates and conventions in the 50s and 60s you hear much of the same stuff, and it was fractured then, too. The difference was they always coalesced and could be counted on at the end of the convention to keep party discipline and maintain a relatively unified platform; today, not so much. You are right in that the GOP is in disarray and if it doesn't evolve it will die. Maybe that's what needs to happen, like culling the herd or an intentional forest fire to allow new growth. You are absolutely right, too, in that Trump is making the GOP crazy.

People forget that the religious right/moral majority/anti-abortion part of the GOP really never gained traction until Reagan was in office; before then it just wasn't important to the GOP. What used to be the base of the party ("fiscally strong, healthy national defense, 2nd Amendment loving, let other people do what they want (socially) as long as it doesn't bother me average person") isn't nearly the majority like it used to be.

The DNC has, over the past 20 years, done a better job of focusing on key aspects of its platform and keeping rank-and-file in line.
 
@x SF med you are not wrong in that assessment. The scenario you described has already occurred to our friends DownUnder (no offense to board member Aussies). However, for here at home, I would have to say that not all the citizenry are sheeple, yet. Though it sure seems to be heading in that direction fairly quickly.

@Devildoc I will agree there are parallels and similarities. However, when has the party ever been in this much, dare i say, imminent danger of implosion from an outside rival (Trump)? I don't believe you are going to see the party come together at the last minute like they did last time. Granted, this is anecdotal, but I have heard a remarkable number of people I know who are staunch conservatives, who have told their local party leadership to fix their fuck up before another penny is donated. Even going so far as to going independent.

One legitimate theory that was put forth was that we may not see a delegate get 51% of the votes needed for the nomination at the RNC convention. To my understanding, this has not occurred since Lincoln sought and won the nomination. In the end, from a historical perspective, these are exciting times to be observing as far as politics goes.
 
ke4gde said:
I will agree there are parallels and similarities. However, when has the party ever been in this much, dare i say, imminent danger of implosion from an outside rival (Trump)? I don't believe you are going to see the party come together at the last minute like they did last time. Granted, this is anecdotal, but I have heard a remarkable number of people I know who are staunch conservatives, who have told their local party leadership to fix their fuck up before another penny is donated. Even going so far as to going independent.

One legitimate theory that was put forth was that we may not see a delegate get 51% of the votes needed for the nomination at the RNC convention. To my understanding, this has not occurred since Lincoln sought and won the nomination. In the end, from a historical perspective, these are exciting times to be observing as far as politics goes.
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Agree with all. And this underlies both of our positions that the party must evolve, or it will implode. I was just simply stating that the party has evolved and has only survived because of that evolution.

My first degree is political science, so I do find the whole thing sickeningly fascinating. Kinda like driving by a car wreck. I remain in contact with a former professor who is "in the know" with national leadership with the GOP, he says there is a whole lot of hand-wringing and the leadership is eating tums by the truck-loads and there are frequent heated discussions about the convention and Trump's role. El Professor is also given to being bombastic, so I take it for what it's worth.
 
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