2016 Presidential Race

[Red Flag 1]

Yeah that would be great. We don't live in a fantasy world though. I would also think there should be zero murders, zero theft, high quality water in every American city to go with great public education. Voter fraud is so small scale in America it is amazing.

Yeah, we are not living in an ideal world, and shit does happen. My hope is that the voter fraud is small, and not wide spread. I just have trouble believing the numbers that the media "reports" . Both sides of the media frenze spin and shape so that it is hard to know to believe any more.

 

[SpitfireV]

So how does it work over there? Over here you're on the electoral roll and your address determines your electorate (area). You then turn up to a polling booth and give your name and address and they cross you off. Later the lists are cross-checked to make sure there hasn't been multiple voting.

Is that roughly how it works there?

 

[DA SWO]

Reports of any political fraud in Illinois are as surprising as reports of lawsuits in Texas.

Tort reform killed the lawsuit industry, especially med malpractice.
You need a new analogy.

 

[ThunderHorse]

So how does it work over there? Over here you're on the electoral roll and your address determines your electorate (area). You then turn up to a polling booth and give your name and address and they cross you off. Later the lists are cross-checked to make sure there hasn't been multiple voting.

Is that roughly how it works there?

Pretty much, but in some states you're required voter ID.

So here's a question for the folks who think I shouldn't need an ID to vote, I need an ID to purchase a firearm and ammunition for that firearm. Last I checked, voting is not in the Bill of Rights.

 

[TLDR20]

So how does it work over there? Over here you're on the electoral roll and your address determines your electorate (area). You then turn up to a polling booth and give your name and address and they cross you off. Later the lists are cross-checked to make sure there hasn't been multiple voting.

Is that roughly how it works there?

Yep. Unless you live in a state that deems it a risk to let blacks vote.

Pretty much, but in some states you're required voter ID.

So here's a question for the folks who think I shouldn't need an ID to vote, I need an ID to purchase a firearm and ammunition for that firearm. Last I checked, voting is not in the Bill of Rights.

Are you being obtuse? We should just go back to white landowners voting eh?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Yep. Unless you live in a state that deems it a risk to let blacks vote.

I just think this post is very shortsighted.

I would say you're the one being obtuse.

But...voting would truly fall under the 9th Amendment, as would Trump keeping his tax returns his own business.

 

[DocIllinois]

Tort reform killed the lawsuit industry, especially med malpractice.
You need a new analogy.

Which States in the U.S. Sue the Most?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Which States in the U.S. Sue the Most?

So I guess it's lawsuits in Maryland...

 

[TLDR20]

How is it voter suppression when it is so easy to get a photo ID from a DMV or the like, corroboration of your citizen status complete?

It is easy for you to do it. It is not easy for a disabled poor black woman who is blind to do.

Being totally honest. I think it is more important that everyone allowed to vote be allowed to, than it is that we keep a few cases of voter fraud at bay. Just like in criminal justice, I'd rather a bunch of guilty meant go free than one innocent man hang.

 

[SpitfireV]

Yep. Unless you live in a state that deems it a risk to let blacks vote.

Thanks mate.

 

[Centermass]

It boils down to this - most conservatives in this country (Especially after the crap ACORN pulled) are in favor of voter ID

Most who are not, feel it's "Discriminatory and unfair"

Bottom line is this - if you don't have a system in place to ensure it doesn't happen more than once (Voting) BY ANYONE, say what you want, all you want, but it's open to exploitation.

 

[Brill]

24th Amendment, Harper vs. Virginia State Board of Elections.

Why are you bringing up a poll tax? Nobody is asserting that it was legal; the argument here was whether voter IDs are Constitutional and if they overly burden the electorate.

SCOTUS has ruled voter IDs are ok (like Indiana) but the state must not overly burden voters (TX, NC, AZ, etc).

I'm not sure how WA and OR handle their election process since they vote by mail.

Crap like this fuels the Trump camp's "kick the bastards" out mantra.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[Devildoc]

UCSD political scientist Lindsay Nielson researched it, found that in states with voter IDs, the overall numbers of voters of all races went down, but there was very little difference between white/non-white. In 2012 Pew Research Center found almost "24 million active voter registrations in the U.S. either invalid or inaccurate," and over 2 million dead voters still had active voter registrations.

And it isn't a partisan or racial thing to have voter ID, either:

2012 Washington Post poll found 65% of blacks were in favor; in 2014 a Fox News poll found 55% of democrats and 51% of blacks were in favor of voter ID; 2016 a Rasmussen poll found that 58% of democrats were in favor.

Between Al Franken in Minnesota and the Florida debacle with Bush/Gore, and LBJ in 1948, there is more than ample evidence that fraud exists. And if you are OK with the argument that "some" fraud is OK, what if that "some" fraud was enough to push a swing/battleground state enough to tip a presidential election where SCOTUS seats are up for grabs? The downhill consequences are significant.

 

[TLDR20]

Samantha Bee Goofs On Trump Supporters Who Say Election Is Rigged | Huffington Post

 

[DocIllinois]

I am just fine with Donnie supporters claiming that the election is rigged.

My sugestion for action on this nonsense hypothesis: just stay the hell away from the voting booths in November.

Easy peazy.

 

[Devildoc]

I am just fine with Donnie supporters claiming that the election is rigged.

I don't know if it is or if it isn't. But seeing what HRC's camp did to ol' Bern in the primaries, I would not be surprised. After the past 10 months very little in this election season surprises me anymore.

 

[SpitfireV]

Seriously? That would be the biggest conspiracy since 911. Bigger, even.

 

[Single Malt]

A couple countries, ones that are not as freedom bleeding as ours I should say, do use finger prints to verify the accuracy of their votes, it is an old way of doing it when the inky finger was a sign that you had already voted, but now with electronic scanners, you can check to make sure the person isn't dead, nor has that person voting anywhere else in the same election. But I think if USG tries that technique, the same politicians who are for voter ID will shoot it down in the fear that their finger print my get identified and they have to stand trial for that time when a snowy night ended with a dead hooker and a bloody nose.

If some states want to have voter IDs then the burden of issuing those IDs should fall on the state and their voting authority. They should have to go around door to door and issue the IDs, and no, they can't just say fuck the homeless, they don't own land.....

It is not smart to spend $25mm on an audit that finds $1mm of waste. US voting fraud is just as big of a problem as having slow wifi on a flight from NYC to DC, not a problem. We just have to remember that an important part of living in a democracy (or democratic republic, or any regime that allows actual voting, i.e. not the Iran kind), is to not be a bitch when you are on the losing side of the election.

 

[TLDR20]

Seriously? That would be the biggest conspiracy since 911. Bigger, even.

Wait what?

 

[Dienekes]

So how does it work over there? Over here you're on the electoral roll and your address determines your electorate (area). You then turn up to a polling booth and give your name and address and they cross you off. Later the lists are cross-checked to make sure there hasn't been multiple voting.

Is that roughly how it works there?

Not in Louisiana, I have one specific voting location (a school near my house), and I can't vote anywhere else. I have also always had to show ID.

US voting fraud is just as big of a problem as having slow wifi on a flight from NYC to DC, not a problem

I disagree with this. We can't spend all this time always moving forward, attacking controversial governance problems like individual rights and all sorts of other incremental things whose collective accumulation over the years completely changes society generation to generation and then say voter fraud is not a big deal. To get people to believe in the process and the government itself (which should be a goal of any governing body) is paramount. People are already disenfranchised with the concept of "my vote is important". Add voter fraud in the mix and a lot of people just say fuck it. Get enough people to say fuck it, and then, the government goes beyond its legitimate control, but nothing changes because the voters don't believe that they possesses the power to change it anyway. Eventually, you end up with the piss poor excuse of an election that we have now or in more advanced cases, Ukraine pre-Crimea etc.

BLUF: We can't champion all these "advances" in liberty, social problems, and other things affecting the very fabric of our society, our culture if you will, and then blow off voter fraud as if it is simply a minor nuisance upon the road to glory. With all the technology and money we have, making certain that whoever is voting is doing so legally should not even be a conversation. It should be a given.