2016 Presidential Race

[DocIllinois]

How is she getting her prescription without ID?

My 90 year old grandfather gets his DL at the DMV, can't even fucking walk, and lives in a retirement home.

He can't walk and is eligible for, and earns, a driving license? Not being a dick, just wondering how that might be pulled off.

At any rate, the history of our nation has included a gradual expansion of voting rights. Elected officials should be finding ways to encourage voting to best serve their electorate, not passing legislation to add unnecessary steps or make it potentially more difficult for anyone, IMHO.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

He can't walk and is eligible for, and earns, a driving license? Not being a dick, just wondering how that might be pulled off.

At any rate, the history of our nation has included a gradual expansion of voting rights. Elected officials should be finding ways to encourage voting to best serve their electorate, not passing legislation to add unnecessary steps or make it potentially more difficult for anyone, IMHO.

He still drives, just can't walk. I guess you never seen a electric wheelchair on the back of a disabled persons vehicle?

 

[SpitfireV]

Right, so. Last night I made a post that made very little sense in the context of, you know, reality. I'm going to blame posting at 0200 and to make it relevant to this thread, now Trump and I have late night posting in common.

Apologies guys!

 

[Brill]

Not making excuses for Trump, but thats normal guy talk. Anyone of us would be doing any number of things, saying the same shit. Than again, none of us are running for POTUS.

I'm positive Bill was very respectful when discussing potential targets of his affection. Trump is evil unlike the White House has ever seen.

 

[Salt USMC]

I'm positive Bill was very respectful when discussing potential targets of his affection. Trump is evil unlike the White House has ever seen.

Daily reminder that Bill Clinton is not running for President of the United States of America.

 

[policemedic]

The point isn't that voter fraud is not important, it is that at the capacity that may be happening at the moment in US in federal elections (most importantly the presidential one), it is not significant enough to show any change whatsoever. So far what has been recorded has been mostly systematic errors (see the video I posted and look into the studies Oliver cites), and even those have been insignificant to change the outcome of any elections. There are much more important issues that could be resolved (how about easier access to VA hospitals) than this non-issue of voter IDs. Voter IDs are not a clever solution at all, IDs can be faked (see any college campus in the country) so if there was this systematic fraud that the Democrats are running, I am sure they would be printing fake ones in no time and handing them out to any illegal immigrant they could pick up at Home Depot. How does that sound?

It sounds like you lack the data to support the position you've taken. While voter fraud has been looked at, I wouldn't say it's been investigated to the degree that we can confidently say to what extent it has played a part in influencing election results.

Perhaps more to the point, voter fraud on any level can diminish voter confidence in the system and in the power of their vote. It seems logical this could have an effect on voter turnout and therefore

Yeah I do this.

If you think this is an echo chamber for liberal ideas you are high.

I didn't get that all from @racing_kitty 's post.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Your friend is an 85 year old diabetic woman with osteoporosis?

None of those things have any bearing on the ability to get to a place offering ID. Why not make your hypothetical black too just so you get all the things that could be "against" them.

My grandma who was a cancer patient among other things, had photo id till the day she died.....

 

[TLDR20]

None of those things have any bearing on the ability to get to a place offering ID. Why not make your hypothetical black too just so you get all the things that could be "against" them.

My grandma who was a cancer patient among other things, had photo id till the day she died.....

I'm saying man, there are people who have a very hard time getting an ID. Just like you have great anectdotal evidence of an old person with an ID, that woman who is blind with osteoporosis is also an anecdotal example. I work with people like this 2 days a week every week. People say why don't they take the bus? Well Rockingham county NC doesn't have one unless you live inside the city. Being black is for the most part irrelevant. Being poor is the main factor. Most of my anecdotes relate to impoverished blacks because that is who I work with most often.

 

[DA SWO]

If voter fraud was an issue that could be solved *without* depriving innocent people of their vote, then I agree, there would be zero reason to let it slide. Heck, even if voter fraud was an issue that involved more than a handful of cases, I'd designate it as much more urgent. But right now, neither of these are true. The solutions proposed would deny thousands of innocents their ability to vote, in an effort to stop far fewer people from committing voter fraud. That's unacceptable. Many credible sources, both on the right and the left, acknowledge that voter fraud is not currently in a position to influence elections by any significant amount. The people who are pushing for these laws are doing it more for the 'principle' of preventing the crime. Even if by doing so, they are hurting far, *far* more innocents.

LOL, Chicago (R.J. Daley Sr) routinely threw elections in Illinois via vote fraud.

 

[Salt USMC]

None of those things have any bearing on the ability to get to a place offering ID. Why not make your hypothetical black too just so you get all the things that could be "against" them.

My grandma who was a cancer patient among other things, had photo id till the day she died.....

Like these people? Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

The stinger:

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

Over 600,000 registered voters in one state alone. Six. Hundred. Thousand. Even if 99% of those voters went out and got an acceptable ID (which won't happen), that's still 6,000 voters in Texas alone that are being discouraged from voting. All to combat 31 confirmed cases of voter fraud.

Do you see why it's such a problem?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I'm saying man, there are people who have a very hard time getting an ID. Just like you have great anectdotal evidence of an old person with an ID, that woman who is blind with osteoporosis is also an anecdotal example. I work with people like this 2 days a week every week. People say why don't they take the bus? Well Rockingham county NC doesn't have one unless you live inside the city. Being black is for the most part irrelevant. Being poor is the main factor. Most of my anecdotes relate to impoverished blacks because that is who I work with most often.

No you are making excuses for people based on irrelevant issues. If they can get their ass out tonvote, they can get their ass out and get identification. It really is that simple.

Now I will say, as I have before, I think showing a state ID is bullshit, along with the laws requiring state ID. A passport, birth certificate, SS card, etc, should be more than sufficient in providing proof that a person with that name, birth date, and SS number voted. If that person is not who they identify as, it really wouldn't matter as long as the vote is accounted for by a citizen. That said Identity theft is a crime, so yeah.

 

[TLDR20]

No you are making excuses for people based on irrelevant issues. If they can get their ass out tonvote, they can get their ass out and get identification. It really is that simple.

Now I will say, as I have before, I think showing a state ID is bullshit, along with the laws requiring state ID. A passport, birth certificate, SS card, etc, should be more than sufficient in providing proof that a person with that name, birth date, and SS number voted. If that person is not who they identify as, it really wouldn't matter as long as the vote is accounted for by a citizen. That said Identity theft is a crime, so yeah.

So you think it is bullshit, but are arguing with me?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Been Poor, still hispanic, got my license.

My dad had to get his name changed legally because he'd been using an alias for his first name his whole life. He was never called by his first name, all of his credit was under his alias.

Looked up state of Texas ID Fees...they're not expensive and I'm sure they're subsidized. Cheaper than California's though.

 

[policemedic]

Like these people? Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

The stinger:

Over 600,000 registered voters in one state alone. Six. Hundred. Thousand. Even if 99% of those voters went out and got an acceptable ID (which won't happen), that's still 6,000 voters in Texas alone that are being discouraged from voting. All to combat 31 confirmed cases of voter fraud.

Do you see why it's such a problem?

That math is based on the assumption that those registered voters are legally entitled to vote.

This is anecdotal but I've spent my entire career dealing with the poor, the downtrodden, and the disadvantaged. My experience has been that if one doesn't have an ID, one simply doesn't want one. It simply isn't that hard.

I do understand the argument that acquiring a legal ID to vote should not be difficult or expensive. I agree with this position. What I don't understand is why anyone believes people should be able to vote--to use what is perhaps the most important power a citizen has--without proving eligibility.

Of course, voting isn't the only right that is restricted based on having an ID. Try buying a gun from an FFL without one. Likewise, access to medication is denied without an ID.

#sudafedmatters

 

[Ranger Psych]

I'm saying man, there are people who have a very hard time getting an ID. Just like you have great anectdotal evidence of an old person with an ID, that woman who is blind with osteoporosis is also an anecdotal example. I work with people like this 2 days a week every week. People say why don't they take the bus? Well Rockingham county NC doesn't have one unless you live inside the city. Being black is for the most part irrelevant. Being poor is the main factor. Most of my anecdotes relate to impoverished blacks because that is who I work with most often.

Then
Fucking
walk

Roll with a fucking cane for a goddamn oar on the gondola walmart cart for all i fucking care. The shit ie finding a means to get from point a to b, aint hard, quit coddling shitbirds and defending those who shitbird by fucking choice.

We have multinub veterans that would low crawl to the fucking dmv to get their shit if they needed it and nobody would hook them up with a ride. Fuck, call 911 and a cop would show up and at least source a ride, if not hook ol tldr's granny hunchback the fuck up with a ride.

Come the fuck on. A photo ID is ten, maybe fifteen bucks at the dmv last I checked. You can make that in an hour or less panhandling if theyre so fucked up as your example.

Theres no discouragement involved, its go get the shit you need. They could even make the ID free for all I care, and yall would still throw a hissy about ol granny nofriends that cant call up the senior center for a hookup... bet a gummer to freddy the local parchesi champ would get her front row seats in his packard he keeps in the garage.

Tertiary: why are we caring about the inability to get to somewhere for id, when that same inability SHOULD APPLY TO THE ABILITY TO GET TO A POLLING PLACE?

whala, ignored elephant.

 

[Salt USMC]

Come the fuck on. A photo ID is ten, maybe fifteen bucks at the dmv last I checked. You can make that in an hour or less panhandling if theyre so fucked up as your example.

Something something poll tax something something unconstitutional

 

[Ranger Psych]

Something something make a CAC SS card something didnt read my whole post something circular liberal logic something something more dead bodies to vote something something real problem head in sand something could be offering solutions something the problem supports the cause therefore fight it something hillary sop something

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

So you think it is bullshit, but are arguing with me?

I'm not arguing, just telling you that your wrong that old blind black ladies with health problems can't get ID. I posted a few pages back that a state ID mandate is bullshit. But yet again, in order to vote you still have to prove citizenship, so yeah, you still need ID in some format, as I pointed out.

 

[Brill]

Daily reminder that Bill Clinton is not running for President of the United States of America.

You think he was the only one to talk about women like that? My point is who cares? The press is full of Republicans pulling their support for Trump so maybe this was a blessing???

Something something poll tax something something unconstitutional

Voter IDs are Constitutional and are REQUIRED in 30 states, per ACLU's website. 30 out of 50 is a majority.

{{meta.pageTitle}}

 

[policemedic]

Something something poll tax something something unconstitutional

Ummmm....no. Requiring an ID to vote isn't unconstitutional.