Feds

AWP said:
It is almost like the 4th Amendment doesn’t exist…
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I just wonder- and this is strictly a hypothetical- what team is going to have to lose 15 dudes at a breach, serving a bullshit warrant on the wrong person for people to stand up for their Rights?

There is a limit to how far you can push people. Former president that invites drama? We let it happen, cause hey, yeah it was an egregious and bullshit overreach, but mean tweets from Orange Man bad. Every day citizens that are pro-life activists? Totally fine for armed jack booted thugs to detain while pointing weapons at him. Probably his family too- we breezed right by it. I mean, *some* people called him an extremist!

I will tell you, for a fact- there are people out there that are not going to comply, and then we are going to have the conversation about how the FBI lost a tac team to someone that won't comply so easily.

And THAT is the scariest part about this overreach- the people directing it aren't going to risk their lives for a bullshit political move; the teams serving the warrants could. And no one is giving a shit about that reality.
 
amlove21 said:
I just wonder- and this is strictly a hypothetical- what team is going to have to lose 15 dudes at a breach, serving a bullshit warrant on the wrong person for people to stand up for their Rights?

There is a limit to how far you can push people. Former president that invites drama? We let it happen, cause hey, yeah it was an egregious and bullshit overreach, but mean tweets from Orange Man bad. Every day citizens that are pro-life activists? Totally fine for armed jack booted thugs to detain while pointing weapons at him. Probably his family too- we breezed right by it. I mean, *some* people called him an extremist!

I will tell you, for a fact- there are people out there that are not going to comply, and then we are going to have the conversation about how the FBI lost a tac team to someone that won't comply so easily.

And THAT is the scariest part about this overreach- the people directing it aren't going to risk their lives for a bullshit political move; the teams serving the warrants could. And no one is giving a shit about that reality.
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You mean like Ruby Ridge? Waco? The FBI did not lose anyone and allowed them and the feds to write the narrative. You are right in that there are people who aren't going to go gently into that good night in a midnight raid.
 
Devildoc said:
You mean like Ruby Ridge? Waco? The FBI did not lose anyone and allowed them and the feds to write the narrative. You are right in that there are people who aren't going to go gently into that good night in a midnight raid.
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This is as very interesting way of putting it; if I can rephrase- "You really think that people are going to stand up for themselves and their rights now!? The federal government already slaughtered women holding their infant daughters for the crime of entrapment into sawing off a shotgun. Oh, and they ALSO burned women and children alive- and what did the populous do? Nothing!"

I think we would agree that America isn't at the same place contextually or culturally as those two events. American Citizens were not in the habit of systematically hunting law enforcement (like we saw with Christopher Dorner) and I don't seem to remember police ambushes as they sit in their cars until a time very recently. This fact sheet shows a remarkable increase in those killings, and that's only up until 2012. And those numbers are *before* "ACAB", defund, the BLM riots, etc etc.

The point of this line of conversation is to address your bolded.

With all the hope I have left to muster, the FBI needs to do a seriously in-depth review of their practices and what their aim is with these unconstitutional raids on political opponents. If we are drawing a line from Ruby to Waco to where we are now culturally, contextually, and with clear eyes... it's not "if" an incident is going to happen, it's "when".

And just so I am clear- I fear this happening because the guys paying for this fucking horseshit aren't the guys making the policy and approving the raids, it's the guys in the stack on the door.
 
I don't think anything would even change IF an agency did lose dudes on a raid, because if the group is "undesirables" like Ruby Ridge or Waco, there wouldn't be the political will to look at the agency itself, but rather double down on attacks on the group.

If the FBI were to raid Antifa/Proud Boys (take your pick of political target) over a "BS" reason and lose guys, what more likely to happen?

Politicians reevaluate how agencies are allowed to operate and conduct such actions without outside-oversight
or;
those opposed to that political group raided call for increased agency powers and actions in the name of "safety".
 
amlove21 said:
I forgot what a good amount of shaming happens in the threads now, and let me tell you, I am here for it and that's not a joke. The nasty side effect of people being dumb in public without repercussion has led to a lot more people being dumb in public. I am glad to see shitty ideas openly mocked.

"Mockery is a powerful tool, and it works well." - Some Russian dude that pseudointellectuals simp for.

On to the topic at hand- here are a list of things we still do not have answers on:
  • The Largest Mass Shooting in America's History (Vegas)
  • A single federal prosecution for 100 days of Portland riots, burning federal buildings, literally killing people
  • Why Antifa is allowed to operate as a domestic terror organization with impunity after years and $2B worth of national damage
  • Hunter Biden's laptop
  • Why individual American Citizens were labeled as "domestic terrorists" and surveilled by federal agencies over school board meetings
  • Why the FBI raided President Trump's home
  • Where the charges are for the guy that tried to kill a supreme court justice after the left BEGGED for violence (Incitement?)
  • Why are Jan 6 rioters being held in solitary confinement on misdemeanors


Here is what we *do* know

As always- if you think the federal government (at least as we know it right this second) is here to protect you or your freedoms, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
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We had a big terror scare in San Antonio earlier this year. Local synagoges closed, SAPD and the Feds made an arrest just prior to execution. The perp has never (to my knowledge) been ID'd.
Local speculation is a jihadi border crosser, and that would embarrass Brandon.
 
Cookie_ said:
I don't think anything would even change IF an agency did lose dudes on a raid, because if the group is "undesirables" like Ruby Ridge or Waco, there wouldn't be the political will to look at the agency itself, but rather double down on attacks on the group.
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Changes in the number of sympathizers for both ends of the extremist bell curve, combined with a dramatically increased ability to be heard through technology in general since the 90s (and how that is exponentially speeding up how quickly the social definitions 'normal' and 'undesirable' or 'extreme' are changing), leave me thinking otherwise.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
Sigh…I just don’t know who/what to believe anymore.

FBI allegedly engaging in 'purge' of conservative employees, retaliating against whistleblowers: Jim Jordan
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This is BS. You don’t get your clearance removed simply for “being conservative”. Nobody in the federal government has ever been punished because they’re really passionate about a flat tax or supporting cops. You WILL get a side-eye when you park your truck covered in three percenter bumper stickers outside of Quantico, however.
 
A friend of mine and a former coworker recently retired from the FBI. He is an outlier. He never had leadership asperations and never rose above SA, and he finagled his entire career to stay in NC (aside from some teaching at the academy). He has been increasingly frustrated at the direction and politicization of the FBI and was counting his days to get out. He says if he had it to do all over, he would not have joined.
 
Salt USMC said:
This is BS. You don’t get your clearance removed simply for “being conservative”. Nobody in the federal government has ever been punished because they’re really passionate about a flat tax or supporting cops. You WILL get a side-eye when you park your truck covered in three percenter bumper stickers outside of Quantico, however.
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I am going to disagree with you here, because I have seen it happen. Not anecdotally, not 3rd hand.

People are 100% being warned and in some cases punished for their "extremist" views, which is odd, because you can sort of put all of the "extremist opinions" in one bucket. And not a single one of those views would be considered "liberal".

In one case, a member refused to remove their Betsy Ross flag from their deployed room; that member was sent home from the deployment over it. And it was a special operator- a high performing one.

I guess we could quibble over what "punishment" is; but to your bolded-

They're not getting punished for "being conservative". They're being punished because our leadership has redefined what "extremist" means. So now, just like in American culture, things that were "conservative" 10 years ago are "extremists".

So you're kind of right- but you're also very wrong. "Conservatives" aren't being punished; former "conservatives" that are now labeled "extremists" are being punished. There is a very real and palpable bias at higher levels of command.

Devildoc said:
A friend of mine and a former coworker recently retired from the FBI. He is an outlier. He never had leadership asperations and never rose above SA, and he finagled his entire career to stay in NC (aside from some teaching at the academy). He has been increasingly frustrated at the direction and politicization of the FBI and was counting his days to get out. He says if he had it to do all over, he would not have joined.
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The military writ large can't make recruiting goals, and we are absolutely hemorrhaging people in the mid-upper management tiers. Like- E8's with 20 years just saying "Fuck it don't consider me for 9, I am outta here."

The people that are getting out are saying the same thing as the people that decide against enlistment. And it's real close to what your friend said about the FBI.
 
amlove21 said:
I am going to disagree with you here, because I have seen it happen. Not anecdotally, not 3rd hand.

People are 100% being warned and in some cases punished for their "extremist" views, which is odd, because you can sort of put all of the "extremist opinions" in one bucket. And not a single one of those views would be considered "liberal".

In one case, a member refused to remove their Betsy Ross flag from their deployed room; that member was sent home from the deployment over it. And it was a special operator- a high performing one.

I guess we could quibble over what "punishment" is; but to your bolded-

They're not getting punished for "being conservative". They're being punished because our leadership has redefined what "extremist" means. So now, just like in American culture, things that were "conservative" 10 years ago are "extremists".

So you're kind of right- but you're also very wrong. "Conservatives" aren't being punished; former "conservatives" that are now labeled "extremists" are being punished. There is a very real and palpable bias at higher levels of command.


The military writ large can't make recruiting goals, and we are absolutely hemorrhaging people in the mid-upper management tiers. Like- E8's with 20 years just saying "Fuck it don't consider me for 9, I am outta here."

The people that are getting out are saying the same thing as the people that decide against enlistment. And it's real close to what your friend said about the FBI.
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Very similar trends in Canada. A ton of Snr NCO and WO's leaving and they can't come close to recruiting numbers.
I know of Operators kicked out because they brought their kid's to jump on the bouncy castles at the Trucker Convoy protest. Nothing at work or in uniform.
 
RackMaster said:
Very similar trends in Canada. A ton of Snr NCO and WO's leaving and they can't come close to recruiting numbers.
I know of Operators kicked out because they brought their kid's to jump on the bouncy castles at the Trucker Convoy protest. Nothing at work or in uniform.
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Yep. We were ordered (not suggested, not encouraged) to host talks on what extremism is, and then I was ordered to go into every single room and check for "extremist material".

I don't need to bore you with the list of things that were and weren't on that list, but this was 2021 and I seem to remember some leaders in our community showing a very clear bias, and it wasn't to the right.

Even in this plainly biased military.com article, you can read between the lines.

Some Troops See Capitol Riot, BLM Protests as Similar Threats, Top Enlisted Leader Says
 
amlove21 said:
Yep. We were ordered (not suggested, not encouraged) to host talks on what extremism is, and then I was ordered to go into every single room and check for "extremist material".

I don't need to bore you with the list of things that were and weren't on that list, but this was 2021 and I seem to remember some leaders in our community showing a very clear bias, and it wasn't to the right.

Even in this plainly biased military.com article, you can read between the lines.

Some Troops See Capitol Riot, BLM Protests as Similar Threats, Top Enlisted Leader Says
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That read through of “Extremist views” was mandatory for DoD wide. Imagine the money that two hours or whatever cost for absolutely no gain other than to enlighten people of the new definition of extremism is for the current SECDEF. Failure to understand it may result in punishment such as discharge or jail time.
 

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