Guess SCAR is a done deal.

[surgicalcric]

And here we go again...

Its amazing how they can always find a few guys that like it to quote, but never write the negativities found with that damn thing from the rest of the guys...

 

[pardus]

And It will continue to go again until the M series is replaced, simple as that.

 

[surgicalcric]

I am not arguing against the M-series needing to be replaced. However I dont think the SCAR, as it is now, is "it."

 

[pardus]

I can't disagree with that.

THe SCAR seems like a great rifle, as does the HK 416 but I've never used them so I don't know.
I had a mate deploy with a SCAR, said it was fine though he didn't fully trust it due to the modular component to it, nothing concrete though.

I loved the M16A1 I was issued, great rifle but like we all (mostly) know, it's time.

I just want someone in the Army to stand up and say yes we are looking for a replacement and start to seriously trial rifles, stop dragging their bloody feet.

Dreams are free right? :uhh: lol

 

[pardus]

Has anyone heard any negatives on the SCAR?

 

[8'Duece]

From an outsiders point of view I don't think any new weapon system is going to please every single soldier, sailor, airmen or Marine within the Spec Ops community.

One soldier has stubby fingers and short arms, another has long fingers and long arms. Weapon controls can be developed with both left and right hand shooters in the specs and meet those requirements, but there is alway's some soldiers that wont like where the charging handle is, won't like the safety/selector lever, or the stock may be too long, too short or too stubby etc.

How do you design a weapons platform that meets every single soldiers desires ? I don't know that you can, but one thing is for sure. If you don't consult enough of the intended end users in mind, then your just developing a weapons systems with very limited design features, or very unlimited design features.

Can't please everyone I guess.

My .02.

 

[surgicalcric]

I have heard plenty of guys at Group voicing their displeasure with it. I have shot it and it isnt all that bad but for the money we (SOCOM) have put into it I would have expected a lil more...

Like 82nd points out, you will never please everyone however most of the complaints I have heard arent ergonomics but function, reliability, and interchangeability. Last I checked there were still a couple issues the USASFC Commander had brought to FN's attention that hadnt received the attention deserved of the complaints. I know a couple guys who went up to shoot it but havent been in touch with them the past couple days. I will let you know what they had to say based on previous firings.

FWIW, the Schoolhouse offered to run the SCAR through the ringer but they declined because it wasn't ready for the demands they would put it through at Bragg... They still havent taken them up on the offer.

 

[pardus]

I have heard plenty of guys at Group voicing their displeasure with it. I have shot it and it isnt all that bad but for the money we (SOCOM) have put into it I would have expected a lil more...

Like 82nd points out, you will never please everyone however most of the complaints I have heard arent ergonomics but function, reliability, and interchangeability. Last I checked there were still a couple issues the USASFC Commander had brought to FN's attention that hadnt received the attention deserved of the complaints.

That's a bullshit response from FN, unsat.

I know a couple guys who went up to shoot it but havent been in touch with them the past couple days. I will let you know what they had to say based on previous firings.

FWIW, the Schoolhouse offered to run the SCAR through the ringer but they declined because it wasn't ready for the demands they would put it through at Bragg... They still havent taken them up on the offer.

Yeah that's realy not a good start, I would be informing FN if this isn't sorted out to SOCOMs satisfaction, i'd be calling H&K to look at the 416. :2c:

Yes I for one would be interested to hear any updates on the SCAR, Thanks.

....

 

[surgicalcric]

...i'd be calling H&K to look at the 416...

There are a couple of the NG SF units who have the 416 already. They were bought by the state in which those units reside, not by USASFC. ;)

Crip

 

[pardus]

Nice! :)

So is the feeling that the 416 would be a better choice?

 

[surgicalcric]

I dont think the feeling inside USASFC is that at all.

The decision about the 416 was that the SF Companies' uppers were in need of replacement and instead of buying the same ole thing their states did the smart thing and put the money into the 416, which was the right thing to do IYAM. However, the 416 is a stop gap at best between what we have and what we need. On that note, we need to actively look for a replacement for the M-series and not piggyback off what the SEALs wanted. I don't believe the SEALs are happy with the way the SCAR turned out either or atleast thats what I heard from those I have talked to.

Part of the problem is non-shooters are making decisions for everyone (I am aware of how procurement works) and it needs to stop. Those writing the checks should get their cues from those exchanging lead on the two-way range, not some REMF sitting in an office looking at cool shit on the 'net. This is the trouble with alot of SOF equipment, which is a topic for another discussion.

Hope that answered your question brother... Having a rather ADD day and cant seem to think and type together.. lol

 

[Ravage]

GROM and some other SOF units chose the HK416s. But those are 'smaller' SOF units than US Army SF (JW2305 for instance is aprox 200 combat personell) so it's not as easy I'd guess ?

 

[Trip_Wire]

surgicalcric, makes some good points.

That said, IMO the SCAR looks like a good weapon for Special Operations units.

It's been my experience thought that it's hard to please soldiers in Special Operation type units with any one weapons system. Special Ops., soldiers are usually VERY opinionated and not bashful about expressing their opinions. Get three SF guys talking about weapons and you'll get that many different opinions, in fact that is true of most things, to include beer's and whiskey. ;)

The SEALs have always seemed to gravitate towards some of the more exotic weapons systems out there. Of course, their mission is also somewhat different than others in the Community too.

To me, the SCAR system seems to have enough room in the system to keep them all happy. Perhaps, some minor adjustments to the system (Which IMO will happen anyway.) will keep everybody sort of happy with it's selection and usage. Look at all the changes to the M-16/M-4 system, since the 60's. :uhh::2c:

 

[surgicalcric]

Well said Brother...

Noone is ever happy with everything we are issued.

While I am thinking about it, and we are on the SCAR subject, I really like the looks of the 40mm launcher for the SCAR, as well as the stock making it a stand alone weapon (m-79). They actually put some thought into its design it seems and have made it a bit easier to attach/detach from the weapon as well.

I also like the location of the selector switch on the rifles and it being on both sides of the receiver.

Thats all...

Crip

 

[Trip_Wire]

Noone is ever happy with everything we are issued.

While I am thinking about it, and we are on the SCAR subject, I really like the looks of the 40mm launcher for the SCAR, as well as the stock making it a stand alone weapon (m-79). They actually put some thought into its design it seems and have made it a bit easier to attach/detach from the weapon as well.

I also like the location of the selector switch on the rifles and it being on both sides of the receiver.

Thats all...

Crip

Yes, all good features IMO. Talking about the M-79, I've had a few people in the community tell me that by request some people have had M-79's re-issued to them, because they thought that they were more accurate. In my own experience I thought they were more accurate to use than the M-203.

I wonder if the OO Buck and Flechette (Bee hive) rounds are still available? ;)

 

[pardus]

Hope that answered your question brother... Having a rather ADD day and cant seem to think and type together.. lol

Thanks mate, I appreciate your time and effort with this.

I liked using the M-79 I just hated getting slammed in the back of the head with it when diving for cover every 3-5m during fire and movement :doh:

 

[AWP]

There are a couple of the NG SF units who have the 416 already. They were bought by the state in which those units reside, not by USASFC. ;)

Crip

The states dropped some coin on their SF unit? I can't get my head around that. Some of them used to siphon off our Federal dollars and allocate them to other units....now the cycle is reversed and they are buying things for the SF units? What next, you're going to say that you are getting training slots at schools too?

I never thought this day would come.

 

[surgicalcric]

E:

The day hasnt come quite yet. The states themselves are still siphoning off money intended for SF. Being in Alabama has to be the worst though, not because of Alabama but because 20th Gp HQ, 1st Bn HQ along with Aco and Bco all have to divide the money up... I swear if I see one more support guy with a 10.5" barrel I will lose a rocker to choke the shit out of the guys who decided support guys need the new shit over the teams...

As for schools, it is what it is, but I have been told it is 100% better than before 9.11.

Crip

 

[8'Duece]

E:

The day hasnt come quite yet. The states themselves are still siphoning off money intended for SF. Being in Alabama has to be the worst though, not because of Alabama but because 20th Gp HQ, 1st Bn HQ along with Aco and Bco all have to divide the money up... I swear if I see one more support guy with a 10.5" barrel I will lose a rocker to choke the shit out of the guys who decided support guys need the new shit over the teams...

As for schools, it is what it is, but I have been told it is 100% better than before 9.11.

Crip

Do you really want a 10.5" barreled rifle ??

 

[AWP]

E:

The day hasnt come quite yet. The states themselves are still siphoning off money intended for SF. Being in Alabama has to be the worst though, not because of Alabama but because 20th Gp HQ, 1st Bn HQ along with Aco and Bco all have to divide the money up... I swear if I see one more support guy with a 10.5" barrel I will lose a rocker to choke the shit out of the guys who decided support guys need the new shit over the teams...

As for schools, it is what it is, but I have been told it is 100% better than before 9.11.

Crip

While I'm sad to see the practice still continue I was worried that it had ended. It would mean the earth falling off it's axis becuase no state will ever recognize their SF unit like they do their IN or AVN units.

I'm a huge fan of the support guy for obvious reasons and I don't think they get a fair shake from time-to-time, but a support solider with a 10.5 is beyond stupid. Spt Co received the first batch of M-4's in the BN and I thought then and still do that the decision was stupid and almost criminal.

There shouldn't be any friction between the line companies and the support slice, but there always will be.