Missing/Captured: Bowe Bergdahl

JAB said:
A few things I do have questions about:

1) how did he mail all his shit home without that being on his CoC radar?

2) How did talk about "if I take off will you get in trouble" without some TL/SL reporting that shit up.

3) Why did this dude not get put on shit burning duty once he made comments about just "walking to china".

Its just seems like a whole hell of a lot of BS wrapped up in this one. I can't speak for common practice / sop in the 501st. But damn if he had some PFC saying shit like that on my unit, his ass would be off missions and get his dick broke off working like a slave and being watched very closely.

Either way I hope the full story comes out, b/c this whole ordeal is dipped in bullshit.
Click to expand...

There are quite a few sources out there that have stated that discipline in that unit was a joke. Their command was garbage, by several accounts. In fact, the LT that gave the interview to Rolling Stone in 2012 was only with the company for just a few weeks, and then moved. One soldier attested that LT Fancy's departure actually RAISED morale in that unit. That being said, it's not a stretch to believe that an otherwise incompetent command wouldn't perk its collective ears up when a PFC mails all his shit back to the house (including the laptop) and the deployment is only halfway over.
 
I can say that from 04-06 while AD and some from 07-08 as a civilian, what interaction I had collectively/individually with the 501st wasn't arguably stellar. Granted, 4/23 wasn't a shining light of righteousness by any means either, but when I'm a civilian working in a surplus shop and I have to hand reciept my personal VS-17's to a supply NCO so they can be able to do a DZ among other "bro tier" loans to make things happen... yeah... something's fucked up. Never mind the derp I saw while active duty. Basically made it obvious that while the post was nice, there was no on-post transfers worth putting in a 4187 for within my MOS.

My first interaction with anyone from the 501'st was an outprocessing NCO trying to give me shit for wearing my CIB when I had earned my EIB "since you just get a CIB for showing up". I did a left face and stared at him over my right shoulder scroll with a statement of "I earned both, Sergeant. Have you?". He stormed off in a huff.
 
JAB said:
A few things I do have questions about:

1) how did he mail all his shit home without that being on his CoC radar?

2) How did talk about "if I take off will you get in trouble" without some TL/SL reporting that shit up.

3) Why did this dude not get put on shit burning duty once he made comments about just "walking to china".

Its just seems like a whole hell of a lot of BS wrapped up in this one. I can't speak for common practice / sop in the 501st. But damn if he had some PFC saying shit like that on my unit, his ass would be off missions and get his dick broke off working like a slave and being watched very closely.

Either way I hope the full story comes out, b/c this whole ordeal is dipped in bullshit.
Click to expand...

JAB, good questions. My BN had a few soldiers like this during OIF 05-06. If a guy couldn't be "straightened up to fly right" via counseling, chaplain's time, small talk, or two days rest from patrolling (which for certain guys, in certain situations, was perfect to halt an impending depression), then he got moved onto the big FOB and placed on easy duty i.e. the internet and phone center for the duration of the deployment. Catching those issues at the soldier level all comes from good NCOs from the team leader on up. During this last OEF trip, a couple of soldiers were sent off the firebase because their heads weren't in the game. Sometimes they just needed someone to talk e.g. the Padre. In rare cases, a guy just was not fit to be in a combat infantry outfit.
 
racing_kitty said:
There are quite a few sources out there that have stated that discipline in that unit was a joke. Their command was garbage, by several accounts. In fact, the LT that gave the interview to Rolling Stone in 2012 was only with the company for just a few weeks, and then moved. One soldier attested that LT Fancy's departure actually RAISED morale in that unit. That being said, it's not a stretch to believe that an otherwise incompetent command wouldn't perk its collective ears up when a PFC mails all his shit back to the house (including the laptop) and the deployment is only halfway over.
Click to expand...

I know for some guys mailing stuff back home was a common occurrence if they just brought too much stuff over thinking they might have an easier time being on a larger FOB but found themselves out at firebase "middle of nowhere" instead. That being said, is the LT you mentioned the one who gave the Rolling Stone interview? PM me the info.

You can see where I am going with this....small world.
 
So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done.

My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND.

These talking heads talking a big game? His unit members talking about how he deserted? That's their privilege. But they should know I would expend the exact same amount of effort if they were isolated. All Americans get equal treatment with recovery forces.


We do what we must to get our service members back. Sometimes, that means someone's life. Sometimes the means we use are unpalatable. Everyone beating their chest about "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and this other nonsense? Fine. That's their prerogative. But the only reason you're granted that prerogative is because men stand ready to go get anyone, at any time, regardless of their transgressions or their personal feelings. I applaud this administration for doing what they had to do to get SGT Bergdahl back. I challenge anyone here to rationally discount the life of an American (regardless of after-the-fact character judgements).

I am truly sad for the men that may or may not have given their lives looking for him. Just like I am truly sad for the 10th Mtn Army Soldiers we lost in 2007. Just like I would be truly sad for SGT Bergdahl had he been killed in captivity.

I urge everyone to please, stop and realize what we have- a lost Brother, back in America. We aren't perfect. None of us.


The Pararescue Motto (the only DOD force specifically trained and equipped for Personnel Rescue) states "That Others May Live".

Notice that doesn't mention anything about the person's character, behavior, or actions. It simply says every single person wearing this uniform comes home.

/Rant
 
A "Brother"? NO!
I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Am I glad he's back? Yes. Now I want him tried for what he did, and if he did what I think he did, executed.

I'll ask you one question, would you be saying the same thing if your entire team was killed getting him back? Worth it?

amlove21 said:
And that is a shame. A violent dirty shame.

I would like to think that, since then, we have learned. And that we are willing to never do that again. No matter the situation.
Click to expand...

I personally think that is a little naive. I accepted long ago that if I was captured that I was on my own. My life is worth nothing unless it's politically important.

That said, I fully believe that thousands of my fellow Military members would sacrifice their lives to get me, politicians and senior leadership in the Military would not.
 
@pardus , not that @amlove21 needs me to defend him or his position, but his post did cause me to look at the case from another perspective - emotions aside, regardless of the circumstances of what caused him to be in that position, Bergdahl was/is an American soldier who was being held by the enemy. Stupid fucking kid at the time who may have been more brainwashed by his old man than we know. I guess I should not be surprised that it was a Pararescue guy who caused me to look at this different, but his patch says it all "That others may live"...not..."that others may live, assuming those others were captured under the right circumstances"

Now here is where you will likely call me naive, and I will not disagree with you. I have to believe that there is more to this than we know, that we put some type of tracking dye on the 5 bad-guys, and after watching their movements for a year we'll drone their asses the moment they cross the border. See I have to believe things like that, otherwise I'd never be able to sleep again knowing that my government gave these guys up, regardless of the prize. Shit, Howie Mandell could have made a better deal.
 
amlove21 said:
So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done.

My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND.

These talking heads talking a big game? His unit members talking about how he deserted? That's their privilege. But they should know I would expend the exact same amount of effort if they were isolated. All Americans get equal treatment with recovery forces.


We do what we must to get our service members back. Sometimes, that means someone's life. Sometimes the means we use are unpalatable. Everyone beating their chest about "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and this other nonsense? Fine. That's their prerogative. But the only reason you're granted that prerogative is because men stand ready to go get anyone, at any time, regardless of their transgressions or their personal feelings. I applaud this administration for doing what they had to do to get SGT Bergdahl back. I challenge anyone here to rationally discount the life of an American (regardless of after-the-fact character judgements).

I am truly sad for the men that may or may not have given their lives looking for him. Just like I am truly sad for the 10th Mtn Army Soldiers we lost in 2007. Just like I would be truly sad for SGT Bergdahl had he been killed in captivity.

I urge everyone to please, stop and realize what we have- a lost Brother, back in America. We aren't perfect. None of us.


The Pararescue Motto (the only DOD force specifically trained and equipped for Personnel Rescue) states "That Others May Live".

Notice that doesn't mention anything about the person's character, behavior, or actions. It simply says every single person wearing this uniform comes home.

/Rant
Click to expand...

I've been pretty quiet about it so far. I think you hit it on the head. The one exception is that I don't think we should have traded, we should have continued to search and then gone in. From the media accounts, we knew where he was at times but military "leaders" felt the risk was too high to recover a deserter. That's bullshit. He's OUR deserter. If the risk was worth it for any other joe snuffy, it was worth it for him. We get him back and then WE fry him in the court system if it's appropriate. Once found guilty, then WE punish him, not leave him to rot without due process. Bottom line, when he left he was an American Soldier and he should be treated like any other soldier all the way up to and including the court martial he deserves. If he aided the enemy, as is being reported, then we make an example of him. The death penalty is still on the books after all. But we do it according to our laws, not by passively allowing someone else to behead him.

What we don't do is trade a bunch of bad guys that will have major impact on the battlefield and cause untold deaths because they "might" not return to the fight. I think all of us know they are going to go back to the battle as soon as they get the chance. These guys aren't the fighters on the ground, they are strategists and symbols with a bone to pick. They don't need to be in Afghanistan or Pakistan to cause us problems. They can kill americans from Qatar.

I wouldn't expect the Government to trade terrorist leaders for me had I been captured. I'd expect to be looked for until someone found me and got me out. If I died as a POW before that happened, I'd understand. It is war after all.
 
I'd rather have a 2k+ lb bomb dropped on my 10 digit, tbh. In fact, there was a request/authorization to that sort in some paperwork I filled out for a thing. I'm good, fuck them with the biggest shit you can spare TYVM. Use the crater as a nose in a GAU-9 drawn happy face please.
 
Big picture. If WE knew where he was on several occasions, why didn't WE go get him immediately....(sic- Jessica Lynch) ACTIONS have CONSEQUENCES. Big gubmint ABC's knew where he was all along but we held back, why? Because ABC knew where this was headed - more American lives lost for a traitor, more American blood spilled trying to rescue the enemy and bring him back to the US. "He" now walks among us. You have not heard the last of BRB, his 15min will last a long long time.

My thoughts on his "rescue"? - I call the "rescue" THE CAPTURE" of one who used to be us, but is now them. He could've faded into the internet abyss or been laying dead in a waddy somewhere and I would not have cared. He made his choice by walking out on his brothers. We broadcast the fact that he walked out in 2009 loud and clear and very few wanted to listen. "The Pentagon" concluded he walked out, deserted, and what did they do? Nada.

The cross is his to bear, not mine, nor should that cross be borne by any who searched for him, alive or in Valhalla. Celebrate their lives, not this loser traitor. Karma is coming. IMHO we should have waited until the termination of combat operations, not negotiated now prior to retrograde. There is now a price on all our heads.

@Ranger Psych You lost a few .civ folks with that last post. 8-) I'd gladly stand in the overpressure wave and take yet another TBI test for it!! :D Danger close.

@amlove21 I agree with a few of your points but at what point do you stop being an American citizen - at what point do you stop being an American soldier? You stop being an American citizen when you renounce your US citizenship. You stop being an American soldier when you take off your uniform and join the enemy. At that point you are no longer my brother.
 
Frankly, from what the Obama Administration claimed that this deal had to be done so quickly that Congress couldnt even be notified, I expected to see Bergdahl on a stretcher. He was able to stand and walk off under his own power. He looked pretty good IMHO. This just increases my skepticism over this "exchange".
Thank God, for the men that went in to get him and for their safe and successful completion of their mission.
 
Chopstick said:
Frankly, from what the Obama Administration claimed that this deal had to be done so quickly that Congress couldnt even be notified, I expected to see Bergdahl on a stretcher. He was able to stand and walk off under his own power. He looked pretty good IMHO. This just increases my skepticism over this "exchange".
Thank God, for the men that went in to get him and for their safe and successful completion of their mission.
Click to expand...

Have you ever been in an isolation scenario? No matter how tired/sick I was I would have hopped my ass on that bird.

I also remember the code of conduct course I went to, and what it taught about returning with honor. That has two sides, the first is that "fuck him he is a traitor" feeling we all get. But now that he is back, some of the things he did while in captivity need to be looked at from the same code of conduct course teachings. He may have done what he did to survive, and none of us were there.We can forgive him for what he did in captivity(depending in what it was), but the events leading up to that captivity are still very much up for review. I have mixed feelings in the issue. I am glad he is back, but he needs to be held accountable for his actions prior to being taken.
 
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pardus said:
A "Brother"? NO!
I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Am I glad he's back? Yes. Now I want him tried for what he did, and if he did what I think he did, executed.

I'll ask you one question, would you be saying the same thing if your entire team was killed getting him back? Worth it?



I personally think that is a little naive. I accepted long ago that if I was captured that I was on my own. My life is worth nothing unless it's politically important.

That said, I fully believe that thousands of my fellow Military members would sacrifice their lives to get me, politicians and senior leadership in the Military would not.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if he violated the UCMJ while in captivity (or doing so led to his capture), then yes, punishment is appropriate and should be sought.

We have had entire teams of guys killed getting one guy back, and yes, it is worth it, and yes, we will go out and do it again. This June 9th marks the anniversary of PEDRO 66. I lost 3 very close friends on that crash, and they died doing exactly what you're describing. They went out for someone they didn't know and got killed in the process. There has been some discussion about that mission- did they need to go, did the patient meet MEDROE and so forth- but it doesn't matter. Everyone comes home. "That Others May Live" isn't just something cute we say at commander's calls to get everyone all riled up.

You can think that it's "naive" to think that our administration wouldn't risk anything to save you- isn't that the big deal now? That President Obama broke the law in favor of the rescue of an American?
 

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