Missing/Captured: Bowe Bergdahl

If there was controversy over what happened here, I would 100% agree with you. But NO ONE who was in his unit has come out and said anything different. Multiple accounts from guys he served with of behavior leading up to the desertion that was consistent with someone planning on leaving, he turns up missing overnight, and the accounts from the kids of him asking where he could find the Taliban. Being a shitty soldier is nowhere near in the same category as what this guy did, and I certainly would never advocate leaving an American behind because they were a shitbag. This goes FAR beyond that.

At the end of the day, our judicial system is built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. I definitely see the validity in that argument. My personal opinion is that the circumstances of this case are such that it was not worth the cost to get this guy back, simply because he hadn't been tried and found guilty in a court. I think there was enough evidence from overseas to constitute proof of intent and action, and that that should have led to him being stripped of his citizenship and no longer afforded the protections of the US judiciary system.

The only issue I have with the accounts from the guys in his unit is that everyone saw him do all sorts of bizarre things such as: pack up his stuff and send it home, told guys he was going to skip town and head to China etc. Supposedly everyone saw these signs that he was going to desert and did nothing. Supposedly one guy saw him desert his post and take off into the mountains without his weapon and armor. I guess they just watched him walk off? Now, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I believe what they are telling us, I'm just in disbelief that no one did anything about it. Bergdahl's company sounds about as functional as Chris Brown and Rihanna's relationship.
 
I think we need to just wait this out and see what Bowe has to say about his actions, that is if tells the truth.

I'm fairly certain BRB's Court Martial will not rest on whether he tells the truth or not. :-"

. Everything is just speculation right now though.

If you're a Democrat, yes.
1.the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. "there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"
synonyms:
conjecture, theorizing, hypothesizing, supposition, guesswork

"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to LEAVE THE WIRE AND JOIN THE TALIBAN"

C'mon man. Plenty of evidence out there. His whole platoon has already testified on MSM. Not trying to be a dick but his own hometown cancelled his welcome home ceremony.
@amlove21 you changed my mind. I'm glad he's home to face the full wrath of his actions.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a 15-6 investigation conducted already? Like, in 2010 or so? Assuming the soldiers' testimonials on-air match what was sworn to then, I'd say it's proven he deserted. Speculation, my fat ass.

His motive for going walkabout might be open for speculation from gen pop, but I'm pretty sure the intel guys and their cohorts were able to intuit that, as well. They just are holding those cards to their collective chests until the deserter actually opens his mouth about why.
 
Yeah, this is going to take a little time and honestly I have no problem with that. The Army can hardly put him in cuffs the second he gets on board the blackhawk.
He must be thoroughly debriefed/interrogated to get both his version of events of why he left and what he did while he was a "captive". Also to garner every piece of intel we can from him.

Then the previous investigations, current investigations (if there are any) can be brought to bear and we can move forward with any charges.
We have him back so time is not vital, as long as it's not swept under the rug I'm prepared to be patient and thorough.
 
http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan

Have you guys seen this? A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban. Turns out there was a war going on there. Weird. Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?

The guys also the ex husband of Omar Khadr's sister. I sincerely hope neither of our countries put any one in harms way to get these two idiots and their kid out.

Zaynab Khadr

Zaynab, 33, is the eldest child of Ahmed Said Khadr and Maha Elsamnah. It's alleged bin Laden attended her wedding in 1999. She returned to live in Canada in February 2005, and was the subject of RCMP investigations for allegedly aiding al-Qaida. She later married Joshua Boyle, whom she met during a hunger-strike on Parliament Hill in 2008 to protest her brother's detention in Guantanamo Bay.


Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/a-quick-sketch-of-omar-khadr-s-family-1.977121#ixzz33n2QZ8Dk

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2009/04/02/a_breakin_slaying_and_khadr_marriage_mystery.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...band_and_new_wife_missing_in_afghanistan.html
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a 15-6 investigation conducted already? Like, in 2010 or so? Assuming the soldiers' testimonials on-air match what was sworn to then, I'd say it's proven he deserted. Speculation, my fat ass.

His motive for going walkabout might be open for speculation from gen pop, but I'm pretty sure the intel guys and their cohorts were able to intuit that, as well. They just are holding those cards to their collective chests until the deserter actually opens his mouth about why.

As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted. Like I said before, while I think he is a delusional and naive idiot, he is at best a deserter and at worst a traitor.
 
As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted.

Thought so. Hence my earlier post about speculation, which was directed towards kheenbish more than anyone. Not everything is speculation at this point, or at least not as much as people think.
 
As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted. Like I said before, while I think he is a delusional and naive idiot, he is at best a deserter and at worst a traitor.
I believe their was.
They can re-open it to take statements from him.
He should just Lawyer up and see if his Defense Counsel can come up with a good plea deal.
 
Hmmm, I've been thinking about that for a while. Unless he is currently being held or is held in pre-trial confinement, I don't think they could give him time served. They can choose to suspend punishment (say 10yrs prison suspended). I think it will really depend on the political influence whenever he is (if he is) formally charged. If the parents of the KIA soldiers who died looking for him keep up with speaking out/being on the news. Than I think the Army will be more influenced to actually punish him.

The Btn commander of the 1/501st should just charge him and push the paperwork up, then let the Army try and tiptoe around this political land mine.
 
The source for the following is suspect (Eclipse).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...declared-jihad-in-2010-secret-documents-show/

Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying 'Salaam' repeatedly.

If true, this will change my position significantly. Last Code of Conduct classes I had, one of the main features was that you never stop attempting to resist and escape. There is NO excuse for carrying a firearm without trying to take as many of the bastards with you as possible. Being unable to resist a well-armed force while sick, unarmed or suffering a major injury is understandable. Being fit enough to play soccer, having a loaded firearm and NOT resisting is completely unacceptable.
 
Hmmm, I've been thinking about that for a while. Unless he is currently being held or is held in pre-trial confinement, I don't think they could give him time served. They can choose to suspend punishment (say 10yrs prison suspended). I think it will really depend on the political influence whenever he is (if he is) formally charged. If the parents of the KIA soldiers who died looking for him keep up with speaking out/being on the news. Than I think the Army will be more influenced to actually punish him.

The Btn commander of the 1/501st should just charge him and push the paperwork up, then let the Army try and tiptoe around this political land mine.
This. Completely agree.
 
The guys also the ex husband of Omar Khadr's sister. I sincerely hope neither of our countries put any one in harms way to get these two idiots and their kid out.

And that brings up an interesting question, how many people associated with the TB and Al-Qaeda are going to be "kidnapped" now in order to try and be traded for prisoners?
 
Thought so. Hence my earlier post about speculation, which was directed towards kheenbish more than anyone. Not everything is speculation at this point, or at least not as much as people think.

Now in no way do I think this guy isn't guilty and should definitly get his due punishment for his actions, but if we want to throw out the we have to bring back this American card, then we also need to give this time to be proven in a court of law/military law. I agree this guy should burn, but if we want to rescue him like an American then we have to give him his rights as an American.
 
It sounds like this guy was wandering off even before deployment for little strolls and whatnot. This seems like a cascading failure to me.
 
So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done.

My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND.

These talking heads talking a big game? His unit members talking about how he deserted? That's their privilege. But they should know I would expend the exact same amount of effort if they were isolated. All Americans get equal treatment with recovery forces.


We do what we must to get our service members back. Sometimes, that means someone's life. Sometimes the means we use are unpalatable. Everyone beating their chest about "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and this other nonsense? Fine. That's their prerogative. But the only reason you're granted that prerogative is because men stand ready to go get anyone, at any time, regardless of their transgressions or their personal feelings. I applaud this administration for doing what they had to do to get SGT Bergdahl back. I challenge anyone here to rationally discount the life of an American (regardless of after-the-fact character judgements).

I am truly sad for the men that may or may not have given their lives looking for him. Just like I am truly sad for the 10th Mtn Army Soldiers we lost in 2007. Just like I would be truly sad for SGT Bergdahl had he been killed in captivity.

I urge everyone to please, stop and realize what we have- a lost Brother, back in America. We aren't perfect. None of us.


The Pararescue Motto (the only DOD force specifically trained and equipped for Personnel Rescue) states "That Others May Live".

Notice that doesn't mention anything about the person's character, behavior, or actions. It simply says every single person wearing this uniform comes home.

/Rant
This is a tough one. I've gone back and forth but keep landing in the same spot... I agree with everything stated above (as well as subsequent posts) with the exception of one critical point:

My point of contention is with the action on the political/diplomatic side of the equation; ie the release/exchange of prisoners for Bergdahl as opposed to the military aspect of PR. These are two very distinct components.

The exchange portion of the decision was purely a political and carries great risk with potentially long standing consequences, which is why we've had a long standing policy against such actions (although it is interesting that other countries, such as Israel, don't necessarily adhere to similar policies but that's another topic). At the same time, Paul Wolfowitz, former Deputy Secretary of Defense, once made the following agreeable statement, "The brave men and women who serve today ... can do so with the full confidence that if they are captured, become missing or fall in battle, this nation will spare no effort to bring them home. This our solemn pledge: however long it takes, whatever it takes, whatever the cost.”

Are the 5 guys we released still the big threat some are making them out to be? I don't know but at some level we still felt strongly enough about them to keep them in GTMO for many years, even over ~2oo previously released prisoners. Such decisions are always political ones and separate from, but potentially resulting in, military PRO. As amlove1 indicated above, when called upon, we can expect the military component of recovery to be carried out with the same high degree of professionalism, regardless of any peripheral noise that may be associated with it.

Am I glad Bergdahl was recovered and is being reintegrated? Yes. As part of this process, in time, I hope he will be asked to answer for his actions; right, wrong, or other. However, as a matter of forward looking policy, I ultimately find the political actions that led to his release to be problematic.

This is not a matter of discounting Bergdahl's life or forsaking him in any way. Nor is it chest beating or some nonsense. Quite the contrary, it's a reasoned approach; one that looks around the corner and asks is there a line with this new precedent? What is the greater impact of the decision? It's problematic...right or wrong, that's where I keep landing.

Just my $.02
 
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Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?
 
Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?
Soft targets (AmCits) in Europe now have a greater kidnapping risk. Their is a general risk, then there is risk added by an incompetent national Security Team.
 
Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?
I hear what you're sayin and agree that it's been a long standing risk. However, I still see increased risk with the decision, especially when considering the effectiveness of deterrence factors as we continue move to leaner expeditionary forces.

The shift in policy potentially emboldens other groups in new AORs, effectively increasing the scope beyond the "usual suspects"...think South America, etc. As SOWT, points out, there is increased to civilians abroad as well. The fact they are not DoD is not likely a distinction that will be made.

I look at the pattern the Israelis have gotten into with prisoner exchanges with the Palestinians/Hezbollah seemingly every few years. Will we find ourselves in a similar position? Perhaps not but it's not something I thought about very often prior to last weekend.
 
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Bottom line, is it better to exchange bad guys for our own, and let the bad guys run free, or let our own be held captive, raped, tortured and killed?
 
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