Missing/Captured: Bowe Bergdahl

[amlove21]

I've been pretty quiet about it so far. I think you hit it on the head. The one exception is that I don't think we should have traded, we should have continued to search and then gone in...

I wouldn't expect the Government to trade terrorist leaders for me had I been captured. I'd expect to be looked for until someone found me and got me out. If I died as a POW before that happened, I'd understand. It is war after all.

Man, it aint that simple. I get what you're saying, but after sitting in the rooms where this guy was discussed for the past 5 years, it's not like we had a tracker on him and were just 'biding our time'.

I don't think the first thing we should do is trade prisoners either. But as far as returning Americans to friendly control, I will sign on from anything from wholesale slaughter to negotiation with known terror groups, and anything in between. I feel it's that important.

 

[amlove21]

Bowe Bergdahl forfeited his membership in the Brotherhood by willingly going over to the other side. That's a far cry from simply being imperfect.

And that's your opinion to have, its just not one that I will sign on to. Until you're found guilty and formally discharged on sovereign US territory, I don't care what you did.

It's a dramatic example- but just imagine the slippery slope we are talking about in reality here. So, what- are we going to have a character review board before PR ops now? "Listen guys, we have a guy thats isolated- turns out he's a shitty dude. Yea, he's an American that's still technically in the service, but he shouldn't be. Let's pass on this one. PJ's/SF/TRAP/Whoever, stand down guys, we decided this guy has earned his captivity."

 

[amlove21]

@amlove21 I agree with a few of your points but at what point do you stop being an American citizen - at what point do you stop being an American soldier? You stop being an American citizen when you renounce your US citizenship. You stop being an American soldier when you take off your uniform and join the enemy. At that point you are no longer my brother.

I see what you're saying, I just violently disagree. I couldn't do my job if I started playing that game. And until we talk to Bowe and get him reintegrated- which could take years, BTW- we aren't going to know the story.

And even if it comes out that yes, he did the worst of what everyone suspects- well, great. He can stand trial and we can spit on him and tell him he's shit and how he's not our brother any more. But we will do that in Kansas, or DC, or Texas.

 

[amlove21]

Have you ever been in an isolation scenario? No matter how tired/sick I was I would have hopped my ass on that bird.

I also remember the code if conduct course I went to, and what it taught about returning with honor. That has two sides, the first is that fuck him he is a traitor feeling we all get. But now that he is back, some of the things he did while in captivity need to be looked at from the same code of conduct course teachings, he may have done what he did to survive, and none of us were there.We can forgive him for what he did in captivity(depending in what it was), but the events leading up to that captivity are still very much up for review. I have mixed feelings in the issue. I am glad he is back, but he needs to be held accountable for his actions prior to being taken.

THIS.

Well said. For the record, those aren't mixed feelings at all. I feel the same way.

I am glad he is back. I feel personal joy knowing that he is alive, in our control, and he will see his mother and father soon. But if he violated the UCMJ, and most importantly if that led to the deaths of other service members directly- then he should be punished to the full extent of the military judicial system. I don't feel those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[AWP]

All Americans should come home...whether that's to Ft. Livingroom or Ft. Leavenworth. I think Bergdahl's a steaming pile of crap, but I'm glad he's back so we can interrogate him, investigate him, try him, and hopefully convict him for his crimes. He deserves his day in court...here in America.

 

[Ranger Psych]

I have to say that Amlove21 is right. He can rot in a prison of our own design once he's found guilty of his crimes under the ucmj.

 

[Chopstick]

I know this is a dumb question but it is a detail that is just making me so curious. Ive watched the version of the release video that is posted here: http://www.funker530.com/video-shows-taliban-releasing-bergdahl/

Bergdahl appears to have a bag in his hand which I think the one one guy frisking him tosses on the ground and leaves it there. It looks like they take off without checking inside that bag. Why wouldnt they take it with them or even look in it or am I missing that part?

 

[Chopstick]

Wow..the Blue Angels AND Leon Panetta in our fair city today.
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/6228667-74/panetta-bergdahl-goe#axzz33ip1WYqZ

“I don't fault the administration for wanting to get him back. I do question whether the conditions are in place to make sure these terrorists don't go back into battle,” former CIA director and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta told a gas industry gathering in Pittsburgh.

Panetta, who was in the Cabinet for four of the five years Bergdahl spent in Taliban custody, said he opposed a swap when Defense secretary.

“I said, ‘Wait, I have an obligation under the law,'” Panetta said during a lunchtime address at the Hart Energy Developing Unconventionals DUG East conference at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Downtown. “If I send prisoners from Guantanamo, they have to guarantee they don't go back to the battlefield. I had serious concerns.”

He said talks fell apart because the Taliban “asked for five top guys.” He did not say when during his 2011-2013 tenure in the Pentagon that discussions took place.

“I just assumed it was never going to happen,” Panetta said.

 

[Scotth]

Here is Gen McCrystal's take on the subject. See video in the link.
http://news.yahoo.com/mcchrystal-on...ocal-193638795.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think it captures the fact that we don't leave a person behind regardless of the cost and yet at the same time we don't absolve people of their actions and we hold them accountable if need be. I have always been a big McCrystal fan but having said that I still think he strikes the right balance here.

Hopefully, military leadership will have the proper resolve to do what is right and not what is lease objectionable PR wise.

 

[TLDR20]

I don't think it would be a PR problem if he is prosecuted.

 

[racing_kitty]

I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick. From Politico:

The White House has been surprised by how much attention has remained on the questions about Bergdahl, from the circumstances of his disappearance to the wild beard his father grew while he was being held that’s even led to Bergdahl’s hometown canceling a celebration. All this, Obama aides say, is in their minds a proxy for the hatred toward the president.

The new approach: Frame the criticism as another example of Republicans complaining about something just because Obama was the one to do it.

 

[Teufel]

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...heir-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan

Have you guys seen this? A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban. Turns out there was a war going on there. Weird. Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?

 

[Scotth]

I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick. From Politico:

I tend to agree with you and TLDR20. I think the circumstance of Bergdahl will be properly investigated down the road, as each passing day goes by. This whole thing has almost become serial. When Charles Krauthammer makes the most cognitive argument in defense of Obama you have to ask WTF out of both the other Democrats and Republicans.

 

[Scotth]

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan

Have you guys seen this? A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban. Turns out there was a war going on there. Weird. Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?

I saw that article. We have also had that same situation play out in NK, Iran and other place around the world. We have never made a deal with the country that takes hostages (OK let me re phase that and say currently). Eventually the 'host' country decides to show how 'great' they are a releases the captives.

Doom on them for being there. They weren't ordered to be there by our country. They don't even compute for me.

 

[pardus]

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan

Have you guys seen this? A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban. Turns out there was a war going on there. Weird. Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?

Wow...

“They really and truly believed that if people were loved and treated with respect that that would be given back to them in kind,” said Linda Boyle, Boyle’s mother. “So as odd it as it may seem to us that they were there, they truly believed with all their heart that if they treated people properly, they would be treated properly.”

Yeah, so how'd that work out for ya?

 

[SpitfireV]

Bloody hippies.

 

[AWP]

I wished I could work at Gitmo for a day so I could answer the phone with "American Ransom Hotel and Bank, this is an unsecure line, how may I help you Sir/ Ma'am...."

 

[CDG]

And that's your opinion to have, its just not one that I will sign on to. Until you're found guilty and formally discharged on sovereign US territory, I don't care what you did.

It's a dramatic example- but just imagine the slippery slope we are talking about in reality here. So, what- are we going to have a character review board before PR ops now? "Listen guys, we have a guy thats isolated- turns out he's a shitty dude. Yea, he's an American that's still technically in the service, but he shouldn't be. Let's pass on this one. PJ's/SF/TRAP/Whoever, stand down guys, we decided this guy has earned his captivity."

If there was controversy over what happened here, I would 100% agree with you. But NO ONE who was in his unit has come out and said anything different. Multiple accounts from guys he served with of behavior leading up to the desertion that was consistent with someone planning on leaving, he turns up missing overnight, and the accounts from the kids of him asking where he could find the Taliban. Being a shitty soldier is nowhere near in the same category as what this guy did, and I certainly would never advocate leaving an American behind because they were a shitbag. This goes FAR beyond that.

At the end of the day, our judicial system is built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. I definitely see the validity in that argument. My personal opinion is that the circumstances of this case are such that it was not worth the cost to get this guy back, simply because he hadn't been tried and found guilty in a court. I think there was enough evidence from overseas to constitute proof of intent and action, and that that should have led to him being stripped of his citizenship and no longer afforded the protections of the US judiciary system.

 

[Kheenbish]

I think we need to just wait this out and see what Bowe has to say about his actions, that is if tells the truth. The video made it seem like to me, that he didn't really know what the heck was going on. Maybe he didn't even want to return? Would that change people’s opinions even more or would everyone still say let’s get that American back? He could have integrated nicely into the Taliban or other terrorist networks, but his worth could have been overdue at that point and who wouldn't take the deal of trading some random deserted for five good men. Everything is just speculation right now though.

 

[Swill]

I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick. From Politico:

I don't expect the Democratic Party to understand. Afterall, their greatest modern President was a draft dodger.