National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

Well, we're living in those times again. Tree of Liberty and all that...

 

[RackMaster]

I guess Toronto is now going to have another layer of bureaucracy for non violent calls.

Toronto mayor tables motion that would see changes to policing

 

[Marauder06]

Interesting article that involves both Dave Grossman ("On Killing") and modern policing:
​

LTC Dave Grossman On Building Cops Who Cannot Fail Us

When speaking to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman for this article—famed author of “On Combat” (2004) and “On Killing” (1995), two works that have persisted for years as practically required reading for military and law enforcement—he references an anecdote he encountered recently of two soldiers engaged in a firefight. Bullets whizzing over their heads, one turns to the other and says, “Well, at least this isn’t as bad as Ranger School.” An Army Ranger, Paratrooper, and former West Point Psychology Professor, Grossman knows that of which he speaks. The training should always, whenever possible, be tougher than the fight. “You don’t rise to the occasion; you fall to the level of your training:” that’s both the adage in martial arts and throughout the military, he tells me. The problem, I seek out Grossman to ask, is: are we sufficiently training our law enforcement officers in this way?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Businesses in CHAZ sue Seattle: Capitol Hill businesses sue Seattle over handling of 'CHOP' zone

 

[Florida173]

Interesting article that involves both Dave Grossman ("On Killing") and modern policing:
​

LTC Dave Grossman On Building Cops Who Cannot Fail Us




View attachment 34603

John Oliver tells me that Grossman is problematic.. so I can't listen to him

 

[Johca]

Part of the pressure to do away with policing is an arrest record keeps one in poverty (low paying jobs). No cops=no arresting which by some thinking will result in less arresting which mean less poverty. But the logic doesn't consider if crime is increasing, what will reduce the number of criminal mischief (nobody get killed or hurt) and criminal acts (rape, murder, spousal/child abuse).

FBI statistics in 1955 estimated 1 of 15 persons in the United States’ working age population had been arrested and fingerprinted for the commission, or alleged commission, of criminal acts. By 2012, statistics assert 1 of 3 persons in the United States had an arrest record by the age of 23.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/w...l-Records-Poverty-and-Opportunity-Profile.pdf

 

[CQB]

It curious reasoning, but I’m sure there’s more to the argument: less law enforcement leads to a positive economic outcome.

 

[Johca]

A valid perspective as positive economic outcome is reduction in unemployability and increased hire opportunity to the higher paying and more attractive jobs. The accompanying silent assertion (or prediction) is this will lower crime or at least shift the crime to less violent so called white collar crimes.

The assertion of " The U.S. poverty rate would have dropped by 20 percent if not for the trend of mass incarceration over the past several decades" has complication of what was the unemployment rate each year and inconvenience of unemployment rate being higher in some cities and areas than others. Presuming all have equal ability there is still problem of being able doesn't necessarily have accompaniment of being willing to get qualified (training and education) or having equal access to the training and education to do those jobs. Crime will still happen that needs to be responded to investigated and lead in an arrest for the courts to deal with.

 

[Ranger Psych]

BlueLeaks: Activist Group Publishes More Than 1 Million Police and...

Fusion centers aren't informationally secured too well, it seems.

 

[Marauder06]

 

[Kaldak]

At least he is being equitable in who he goes after.

Attorney General Bill Barr directed the creation of a task force to counter anti-government extremists, specifically naming those who support the far-right “boogaloo” movement and those who identify as Antifa.

The task force will be headed by Craig Carpenito, the U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey, and Erin Nealy Cox, U.S. Attorney for the district of Northern Texas, and will be composed of U.S. Attorneys’ Offices, the FBI and other relevant departments, according to a press release. The group will share information with local and state law enforcement and will provide training on identifying anti-government extremists, according to an internal Justice Department memo.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-signs-executive-order-to-protect-american-monuments

 

[R.Caerbannog]

At least he is being equitable in who he goes after.



Trump signs executive order to protect American monuments, memorials and statues

Eh... not really. The so called 'Boogaloo" is kind of an inside joke. It's ridiculous anyone right of left, who is discontent with govt overreach, is gonna be targeted. Leftist Marxists riot, rape, kill, burn, and destroy our collective history, but for some reason right wing groups are a worry.

There's little wonder why American's are gearing up, getting in shape, and buying up all the ammo around them. Big gov doesn't have the common citizens back. Meanwhile leftist politicians/bureaucrats are scraping and sniveling to a bunch of Marxist savages, that will quite happily slit our collective throats and toss us into a shallow ditch.

As this thing continues though, I'm starting to empathize more and more with the White Russians of 1918.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

My little burg has already seen an uptick in crime as cops are becoming, ah, "less timely" in responding to calls. I know a lot of cops here, and almost to a person now their goal is to make it home at the end of the shift. Several are looking at positions in smaller departments about 20 or 30 miles out, more rural departments, where they are not besieged by most of the issues going on in cities.

Seeing the exact same in my area now.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

 

[Cookie_]

Eh... not really. The so called 'Boogaloo" is kind of an inside joke. It's ridiculous anyone right of left, who is discontent with govt overreach, is gonna be targeted. Leftist Marxists riot, rape, kill, burn, and destroy our collective history, but for some reason right wing groups are a worry.

There's little wonder why American's are gearing up, getting in shape, and buying up all the ammo around them. Big gov doesn't have the common citizens back. Meanwhile leftist politicians/bureaucrats are scraping and sniveling to a bunch of Marxist savages, that will quite happily slit our collective throats and toss us into a shallow ditch.

As this thing continues though, I'm starting to empathize more and more with the White Russians of 1918.

All the data tends to point towards most Domestic Terrorism being far-right/alt-right affiliated groups.

Violence by far-right is among US’s most dangerous terrorist threats, study finds

Now, we could get into a discussion about how right wing groups are more likely to have traditional organization/planning structures whereas leftists groups are more centered around "Ideals" and less rigid leadership organization, so this probably skews the data.

ETA: This sorta circles back to that "is BLM a group or a movement" question I asked a week or two back. There is definitely that BLM group created by marxists, but they've also effectively turned it into a movement in which many splinter groups are not aligned with/have no knowledge of the original group. In effect, they've attached their tendrils to a social movement that would have happened with or without them are are attempting to steer the ship.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I didn't bother doing a Hitler Video for the elections....but had some fun doing this instead....

Good luck Minneapolis

 

[Florida173]

All the data tends to point towards most Domestic Terrorism being far-right/alt-right affiliated groups.

Violence by far-right is among US’s most dangerous terrorist threats, study finds

Now, we could get into a discussion about how right wing groups are more likely to have traditional organization/planning structures whereas leftists groups are more centered around "Ideals" and less rigid leadership organization, so this probably skews the data.

ETA: This sorta circles back to that "is BLM a group or a movement" question I asked a week or two back. There is definitely that BLM group created by marxists, but they've also effectively turned it into a movement in which many splinter groups are not aligned with/have no knowledge of the original group. In effect, they've attached their tendrils to a social movement that would have happened with or without them are are attempting to steer the ship.

Can you give me an example of a far-right extremist group that you believe the authorities should start looking at? You keep bringing it up as if our government has been ignoring something.

 

[Cookie_]

Can you give me an example of a far-right extremist group that you believe the authorities should start looking at? You keep bringing it up as if our government has been ignoring something.

These are just the ones I remember off the top of my head which could be considered "right wing" terrorism. As we've discussed on here before, "right vs. left" doesn't really work to well, but it's sort of the only metric we have now.

Two recent ones

Boogaloo arrests reveal new extremist agenda to hijack protests

Far-right 'boogaloo boys' linked to killing of California law officers and other violence

Two older ones

There was another right-wing terrorist incident this weekend.

Coast Guard lieutenant, dubbed 'domestic terrorist,' had hit list of media bigs and Dem lawmakers: prosecutors

My point isn't that the government is ignoring it; they catch a lot of these (statistically) dudes before something pops off.

If we want to talk about the propensity to judge the group vs the "individual who happened to be a member of a group" based on how much we(general we, not you/me specific) agree with their politics/actions/methods/etc., that's something we can dive into.

 

[Kraut783]

Not ignoring, just investigating and charging on other charges...as there is no Domestic Terrorism statute. It's just recently (past 3-4 years) the media and govt statements are using the term domestic terrorism for more than they use to.

IMHO.

 

[Florida173]

My point isn't that the government is ignoring it; they catch a lot of these (statistically) dudes before something pops off.

Do you mind being a bit more concise on what your actual point is?

In the theme of a thread about George Floyd and the BLM protests that are dramatically more left leaning with far left extremists taking the advantage of the situation, you want to keep bringing up far right exceptions to this global movement. I think we all get it and you have provided some great examples of how people in the government are indeed spending a lot of time catching these guys too. Now it's great our government might spend some more resources defeating the far left networks that are as likely as being motivated by foreign adversaries as the other side.