National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[DA SWO]

That's not what I was talking about at all, I was referencing the massive increase in terms gang violence and shootings across the Country. Nothing I said had anything to do with Police related shootings.

To add, I'll have to find the specific instances I had referenced give me a few.

You were vague. I made the same assumption that @compforce did.

 

[DA SWO]

No, it isn't, nor does it suggest anything about whether my post had commentary - much less try to 'mislead' people into thinking that something they can scroll up to see is suddenly not there.

Hell, I don't even have those editing privileges.

It focuses on the fact that you asked about how to judge 'something' that was 'brought up a couple of weeks ago when that was published' in terms of 'figurative cost in votes going to Trump or actual cost of over a billion dollars'.

Unless a claim in my commentary directly prompted that question in those metrics, there is no basis to construe my pointing out the disparity between your question and the actual claims in the article as an intentional bait-and-switch, since there is no advantage to be gained for me by doing it.

This being the case, what you did may be the actual misleading element in this discussion, since you're purposely shifting attention towards a less relevant element of the post that ultimately holds no bearing to the original point.

Or, as some prefer, a classic red herring.

"Studies" showing how "peaceful" the riots are are proof the unrest is hurting democrats and helping Trump.

 

[Locksteady]

So the riots weren’t that big of deal?

Sure, at least I think so.

How about you?

 

[SaintKP]

Sure, at least I think so.

How about you?

Could you explain more in depth for my understanding at least?

 

[Jaknight]

Sure, at least I think so.

How about you?

I think they were a big deal and really hurt the message of those who were peacefully trying to have their grievances addressed.

 

[ThunderHorse]

@compforce

Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it.

Just wondering, what part of that post made you think I was hanging the kids deaths on police? Or had anything to do with the shooting in Kenosha?

Infant critically wounded in Bishop Ford Expy. shooting

Interestingly these were normal headlines from the town south of mine every month if not weekly when I was growing up. We used to call it Gang Violence, but now newspapers are calling them mass shootings and sometimes without referencing that it is gang violence, because the focus seems to be to defund police departments and restricting gun rights for the law abiding.

Noticing that is from the south side of Chicago it's unsurprising. Crime in the South Side has been skyrocketing since the Mayor basically gave in to the mob.

 

[Locksteady]

Could you explain more in depth for my understanding at least?

Sure, my inbox is open to continue the derail so we can let the broader discussion continue, in case I've already taken too much thread space responding to each reply.

 

[SaintKP]

Sure, my inbox is open to continue the derail so we can let the broader discussion continue, in case I've already taken too much thread space responding to each reply.

Seeing as this is the George Floyd/National Protest thread I feel like it would be fine, but sure. Stand by.

 

[SaintKP]

Interestingly these were normal headlines from the town south of mine every month if not weekly when I was growing up. We used to call it Gang Violence, but now newspapers are calling them mass shootings and sometimes without referencing that it is gang violence, because the focus seems to be to defund police departments and restricting gun rights for the law abiding.

Noticing that is from the south side of Chicago it's unsurprising. Crime in the South Side has been skyrocketing since the Mayor basically gave in to the mob.

The worst part of it all is, for those who didn't grow up around those areas they don't really have an understanding of it. They see it on the news or hear about it on social media and the immediate reaction is "oh that's unfortunate" then move on immediately to whatever they were doing. Since it doesn't affect them directly it's in essence out of sight out of mind.

I think that's what's going on with a lot of the defund the police crowd. I'm not really seeing the mom of 3 on EBT with the dude slinging on the corner calling for no more police, but the college kid with a Che body pillow doing it.

I don't know, not really sure how to word what I'm trying to say effectively right now.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The worst part of it all is, for those who didn't grow up around those areas they don't really have an understanding of it. They see it on the news or hear about it on social media and the immediate reaction is "oh that's unfortunate" then move on immediately to whatever they were doing. Since it doesn't affect them directly it's in essence out of sight out of mind.

I think that's what's going on with a lot of the defund the police crowd. I'm not really seeing the mom of 3 on EBT with the dude slinging on the corner calling for no more police, but the college kid with a Che body pillow doing it.

I don't know, not really sure how to word what I'm trying to say effectively right now.

Al Sharpton said it best: the latte liberal from the Hamptons.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303278594530181121

 

[Devildoc]

That the riots were allowed at all under the misleading label of "protests" is criminal and speaks volumes about the municipal leadership who allows it.

 

[medicchick]

That the riots were allowed at all under the misleading label of "protests" is criminal and speaks volumes about the municipal leadership who allows it.

Oh they were find and dandy here in Portland, hell the mayor even took part (and PPB had fun macing his ass) until they moved it to outside his house. Now they were a problem and he "has to move because of what this did to his neighbors".

 

[ThunderHorse]

Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts.

Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job

 

[medicchick]

@compforce

Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it.

Just wondering, what part of that post made you think I was hanging the kids deaths on police? Or had anything to do with the shooting in Kenosha?

Infant critically wounded in Bishop Ford Expy. shooting

I thought about the same cases/as conclusion. It's reasonable given the recent instances that had national attention.

 

[AWP]

Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts.

Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job

The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...

 

[Locksteady]

The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...

I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.

I would call this sad - especially in cities like Chicago.

Firstly, postal workers aren't a voting demographic anomaly across unions. The majority of unions have a consistent Democrat-voting majority on their rosters.

Secondly, 'defund the police' is a months-long recent national phenomenon that is ludicrous to frame as representing a pension-focused Democrat-voting government workforce that regularly transits into some of the previously worst crime-ridden neighborhoods in the nation.

A more honest or discerning appraisal might tentatively characterize this as a sign that traditional working-class Democrat voters in major American metropolises are responding to the fact that their leaders are taking cues from the people least positioned to risk the fallout from their 'high-minded' solutions to police brutality.

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

The Postal Police Officers Association (national level) is already in the process of suing the Postmaster General for this.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.

I would call this sad - especially in cities like Chicago.

Firstly, postal workers aren't a voting demographic anomaly across unions. The majority of unions have a consistent Democrat-voting majority on their rosters.

Secondly, 'defund the police' is a months-long recent national phenomenon that is ludicrous to frame as representing a pension-focused Democrat-voting government workforce that regularly transits into some of the previously worst crime-ridden neighborhoods in the nation.

A more honest or discerning appraisal might tentatively characterize this as a sign that traditional working-class Democrat voters in major American metropolises are responding to the fact that their leaders are taking cues from the people least positioned to risk the fallout from their 'high-minded' solutions to police brutality.

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

The Postal Police Officers Association (national level) is already in the process of suing the Postmaster General for this.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers. I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

 

[AWP]

Lastly, and what is not helping this situation, is the fact that last month, President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.

As a former subcontractor for the USPS, 1997-2000, they did not patrol ANYWHERE. Those are postal inspectors who were classified as LEO's. Those are the guys and gals who investigate postal fraud. Their physical security was limited to the security of any postal facility. Would they maybe make runs with carriers to assess situations, go "outside the wire" so to speak? Maybe. 99.99% of their jobs though involved investigating crime. They had badges, weapons, arrest powers, etc.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers. I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

Bingo.

 

[Locksteady]

A clarifying correction before moving ahead: President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service.

The core argument is unaffected.

USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.

If you're trying to shift this from a 'do they patrol or not' question to a 'how effective is it' question, that is reasonable to ask in response to a different assertion. This issue is also exacerbated by POTUS' refusal of COVID-19-related emergency funding to the USPS.

Bottom line from the previous post stands: Dejoy's decision to remove -yet another- LEO entity from protecting its own federal workers only contributes to this problem.

I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.

Honest question: Do you just reflexively use lazy suppositions to make all this up and hope something sticks?

That definitely won't work in this case.

It is announced as an intentional practice in Chicago to protect mail carriers on their routes.

That’s why the Postal Inspection Service is responding with an extra layer of security to help carriers stay safe and avoid becoming victims of street crime.

In the Chicago District, that means using Postal Police Officers on street patrols.
. . .
Letter carriers like the program. “The patrols make me feel a lot more comfortable while delivering mail,” said Letter Carrier Erik Coates while on his route in Englewood, IL.

Letter Carrier Michelle Carlisle also likes the program. “The patrols make me feel safe,” she said. “It shows the Postal Service cares for my safety because they’re out here checking on us.”

The practice is included in their lawsuit as something they increased from previously before.

Jurisdiction and Venue of the Lawsuit: Point 29:

The Postal Service increasingly deployed Postal Police Officers for mobile patrols away from postal facilities, to protect letter carriers and the mail in dangerous areas, to stop mail theft from carriers and from collection boxes, and to insure the safety of the mail at airports.

And their jurisdiction to do so is undisputed, as shown in HR 6407 RDS:

SEC. 1001. EMPLOYMENT OF POSTAL POLICE OFFICERS. Section 3061 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `(c)(1) The Postal Service may employ police officers for duty in connection with the protection of property owned or occupied by the Postal Service or under the charge and control of the Postal Service, and persons on that property, including duty in areas outside the property to the extent necessary to protect the property and persons on the property.

TL;DR it has legal precedence and was employed specifically to prevent situations like the cited mail worker shooting before Trump removed their LE authority in August.

Neither Postal Workers nor Postal Police Officers are celebrating this decision.

 

[JedisonsDad]

So in the wake of police violence, you think the solution isn’t to better fund actual police so they can properly do their job, but to instead better fund a small section of police, in a field that has its own term of being violent (going postal), so that they can do a job outside of their realm of original responsibility? Keeping in mind, that with how small this section of Postal Police are, the amount they might receive would be negligible considering they are operating for a business that constantly operates in the red financially.