Ukraine - Russia Conflict

[AWP]

Bro I grew up catholic and couldn't draw out the org chart.

Altar boys are the bottoms, everyone else is on top.

 

[amlove21]

Sorry I meant Europe not America

I figured you did I just wanted to clarify.

Thanks to the horseshoe theory of politics, you and I have always been much closer on this issue than we disagree. I can understand that one of us trusts the guy leading it more than the other, but after this thing gets buttoned up I can get you there!

 

[amlove21]

Altar boys are the bottoms, everyone else is on top.

Bazinga!

 

[Marauder06]

I figured you did I just wanted to clarify.

Thanks to the horseshoe theory of politics, you and I have always been much closer on this issue than we disagree. I can understand that one of us trusts the guy leading it more than the other, but after this thing gets buttoned up I can get you there!

bro I literally talked about this yesterday during my remarks at the conference in NYC I was talking about in the other thread

 

[ThunderHorse]

He's obviously on the side that wants Ukrainian troops (in reality NATO troops) to march on Moscow to punish the Orcs and Putin. Which would result in the incineration of the world. But common sense is out the window.

Nope, I've been very clear [and consisent]. Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders. Fairly simple position to take and even a binary one.

2-4K dead a week is the estimated range for deaths during the current war. A ceasefire is a good thing, right? Even if it's just for a few weeks while we get Russia to the table for an extended peace agreement?

I don't want to put words in your mouth (fingers?) here, but it seems as if you're saying that a ceasefire won't work even if we secure one? What's the alternative, not negotiating with Putin at all?

Unfortunately a ceasefire only puts pressure on Ukraine unless we get our Eurowussy friends to stop talking out of both sides of their anus. Sanctions are bullshit unless you stop buying Russian gas.

The thing that gets me is how Ukraine didn't blow up the pipelines. Or at least shut them off to shut off the LNG from reaching Western Europe. Clearly a lot of calculus has gone into not blowing them up. But the calculus that goes into Europe continuing the purchase of Russian LNG is just Ukrainian blood on their hands.

You see Russia is more similar to Hamas as an actor? Get a ceasefire even when they don't have many cards? They're able to extract value out of a company greater McKinsey and Co's wildest dreams. They make Mitt Romney look like an amateur.

This is pretty much the only thing I disagree with. I don't see the mineral deal providing any sort of protection if it isn't explicit; I just can't see use engaging in banana wars round 2 over Ukraine.

I think peace needs to be brokered, and Trump is the closest to doing it. I just don't trust that the implication of security means anything to Putin. Hell, simply negotiating "violations of the agreement will lead to the US providing arms and money" is at least something to provide some sort of security without allowing NATO membership or putting us into a shooting conflict.

Listened to a lot of what Rubio had to say today. Which makes me wonder if we all got played by the dog and pony show in DC and with the weirdos in here who keep calling the non-dictator a dictator.

 

[Jaknight]

These are Putin’s demands

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine.
2. No foreign troops in Ukraine.
3. International recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea and four Ukrainian provinces.
4. Ukraine must accept a permanent nuclear-free status.
5. Putin wants a veto action to stop countries from assisting Ukraine in future wars.
6. NATO must roll back its eastern expansion, which Russia claims started the war.
7. No Western troops in countries bordering Russia.
8. Russia wants a say in the military size of bordering European countries.
9. A ban on NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.
10. A ban on U.S. intermediate-range missile deployments in Europe or anywhere that could threaten Russian territory.

 

[ThunderHorse]

These are Putin’s demands

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine.
2. No foreign troops in Ukraine.
3. International recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea and four Ukrainian provinces.
4. Ukraine must accept a permanent nuclear-free status.
5. Putin wants a veto action to stop countries from assisting Ukraine in future wars.
6. NATO must roll back its eastern expansion, which Russia claims started the war.
7. No Western troops in countries bordering Russia.
8. Russia wants a say in the military size of bordering European countries.
9. A ban on NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.
10. A ban on U.S. intermediate-range missile deployments in Europe or anywhere that could threaten Russian territory.

Sometimes I wonder if the actual dictator in this equation has brain cancer.

 

[Devildoc]

Bazinga!

I never turn anyone down except for choir boys, then I turn them face down....

 

[Kraut783]

These are Putin’s demands

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine.
2. No foreign troops in Ukraine.
3. International recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea and four Ukrainian provinces.
4. Ukraine must accept a permanent nuclear-free status.
5. Putin wants a veto action to stop countries from assisting Ukraine in future wars.
6. NATO must roll back its eastern expansion, which Russia claims started the war.
7. No Western troops in countries bordering Russia.
8. Russia wants a say in the military size of bordering European countries.
9. A ban on NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.
10. A ban on U.S. intermediate-range missile deployments in Europe or anywhere that could threaten Russian territory.

wow...what a dick

 

[AWP]

These are Putin’s demands

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine.
2. No foreign troops in Ukraine.
3. International recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea and four Ukrainian provinces.
4. Ukraine must accept a permanent nuclear-free status.
5. Putin wants a veto action to stop countries from assisting Ukraine in future wars.
6. NATO must roll back its eastern expansion, which Russia claims started the war.
7. No Western troops in countries bordering Russia.
8. Russia wants a say in the military size of bordering European countries.
9. A ban on NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.
10. A ban on U.S. intermediate-range missile deployments in Europe or anywhere that could threaten Russian territory.

Neville Chamberlain is holding on to the turnbuckle with his arm fully outstretched.

 

[amlove21]

I just want more JD Vance memes. It just shows how out of touch these people really are.

“Why is the right memeing one of their own?”

1, it’s hilarious. 2, IT’S HILARIOUS. 3, JD finds it funny. He’s in on the joke.

Remember the republicans are weird thing from the election?

 

[amlove21]

bro I literally talked about this yesterday during my remarks at the conference in NYC I was talking about in the other thread

Oh yeah. Very interesting concept. Lemme find the worlds best comic explanation of the horseshoe theory.

After rewatching that video I fear it may distract from the overall thread haha. That one’s on me, @Ooh-Rah - call that auto moderation.

 

[amlove21]

Altar boys are the bottoms, everyone else is on top.

I never turn anyone down except for choir boys, then I turn them face down....

BOTH YOU TWO -2

 

[Cookie_]

These are Putin’s demands

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine.
2. No foreign troops in Ukraine.
3. International recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea and four Ukrainian provinces.
4. Ukraine must accept a permanent nuclear-free status.
5. Putin wants a veto action to stop countries from assisting Ukraine in future wars.
6. NATO must roll back its eastern expansion, which Russia claims started the war.
7. No Western troops in countries bordering Russia.
8. Russia wants a say in the military size of bordering European countries.
9. A ban on NATO military exercises in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.
10. A ban on U.S. intermediate-range missile deployments in Europe or anywhere that could threaten Russian territory.

1. This is pretty agreeable for everyone but Ukraine.

2. Debatable. US can agree, but i don't see us getting European nations to go along with it on their end.

3. Nah bro, you don't get the whole cheesecake because you touched a slice. The lines sit where they are, +/- a DMZ.

4. Agreeable for all parties but Ukraine.

5. LMAO! Fuck no

6. Same as #2; debatable but unlikely. Perhaps numbers might be reduced.

7. Are European servicemembers western, or just Americans? Either way, I can see a reduction but not zero.

8. Bonkers. No way any of those countries are agreeing.

9. But Vlad, Poland is such a good country for joint exercises! Maybe we can cut them back.

10. Quick Google-fu puts the range on those bad boys roughly 1800-3500 miles, which essentially means we'd have to remove all missiles from Europe and Asia, and even Guam+Alaska. Maybe we agree to take them out of Europe (and Turkey), but not the rest.

 

[ThunderHorse]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1900238718536921225

So again, I tell you, who want this war to keep going? Putin or us? Who has sent millions [now] of his own men to the slaughterhouse for something false?

 

[RackMaster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1900238718536921225

So again, I tell you, who want this war to keep going? Putin or us? Who has sent millions [now] of his own men to the slaughterhouse for something false?

The difference is he holds the land and has millions more to send to the slaughterhouse. Without giving a fuck.

 

[amlove21]

For all the very righteous Putin hate that goes on here, it seems that you guys really don't understand the man.

He's a liar, a former KGB spy, and the most adept evil dictator on the planet. His demands are maximalist because he's using the same method Trump uses.

That list of demands is nonsense and will be nowhere near a go/no-go for the actual negotiation.

I love how everyone here will be the first to call Putin a liar and a demon and all the rest and then looks at the list of demands from this demonic liar and pretend like they're actually demands... pick a lane folks.

 

[Box]

Bishop? You're at least a cardinal bro. Wait which one is higher? Religion is fun.

Cardinals might be higher than Bishops - but the Pope is the Bishop of Rome because all Cardinals are Bishops but not all Bishops are Cardinals and the Pope is a Bishop that was a Cardinal which is actually also a Bishop.
...it's probably a paradox of some sort or in this case, it might even be a ParaBox

That is what I would use as the basic of my new religion.
The ParaBox of Contrarianism.


Existing within the paradox (or ParaBox if you will) is how I am able to balance the process of accusing Putin of being a demonic liar while simultaneously assuming that his demandments (10 of them for those who are paying attention) are simple, understandable, and sincere.
...he means exactly what he says when he brings forth the 10 Demandments (almost sounds religious doesn't it)

I choose to refrain from believing not to believe him.

 

[amlove21]

Cardinals might be higher than Bishops - but the Pope is the Bishop of Rome because all Cardinals are Bishops but not all Bishops are Cardinals and the Pope is a Bishop that was a Cardinal which is actually also a Bishop.
...it's probably a paradox of some sort or in this case, it might even be a ParaBox

That is what I would use as the basic of my new religion.
The ParaBox of Contrarianism.


Existing within the paradox (or ParaBox if you will) is how I am able to balance the process of accusing Putin of being a demonic liar while simultaneously assuming that his demandments (10 of them for those who are paying attention) are simple, understandable, and sincere.
...he means exactly what he says when he brings forth the 10 Demandments (almost sounds religious doesn't it)

I choose to refrain from believing not to believe him.

Hallowed be thy name.

 

[AWP]

The Ukraine is going to get boned in any scenario. Putin won't give up the ground they've taken, won't be held accountable for the invasion or war crimes, won't...insert thing here.

No matter who is in the White House.

I don't care if they settle or not, I don't want our money to go to them while we have problems at home which could use that same "unlimited" pile of money. If Europe props them up for another decade? Fine. Stable, steamrolled, whatever their fate we need to stop sharing our Netflix password with them.

The president chastised Z Money for not holding any of the cards. Guess what? Our options are limited and our hand isn't as strong as people think. This is Putin's game to lose and he knows it. Z Money can take a deal or not, but they are on the losing side here. The winner is sitting in Russia and nothing's changing regardless of a peace deal.