TLDR20
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I think the best thing to say, is that I was quite surprised by the reactions of many to the US supporting the war effort in Ukraine.
Ukraine - Russia Conflict
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I think the best thing to say, is that I was quite surprised by the reactions of many to the US supporting the war effort in Ukraine.
pardus
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I don't want to edit my previous post as people have already given likes etc...
I want to add though, that the above post only addresses the ethical aspect of this issue, does anyone believe Putin will stop with Ukraine? He and his cronies have stated that they want more, the Baltics at a minimum, so we would then have a NATO article 5 situation on our hands, what would that cost the US tax payer in money and the US Military in blood? I think we as a country should be grateful that we are winning a war at a budget price and Ukrainian blood only.
pardus
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I'm disgusted by the conservatives in this country who rail against Ukraine and our support for it, Tucker Carlson is the Jane Fonda of this war, nothing would please me more than to see that cunt in a gutter spitting his teeth out.
TLDR20
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It isn’t just Tucker. The issue is that Ukraine has become politically relevant to the point that being anti intervention is a conservative ride or die issue. Despite how intervention(particularly on the unconventional side, like we are doing now) would hurt our enemy, and help our own position. In the most EXTREME conservative view, Ukraine stood up to Trump and needs to be punished for it.
pardus
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Agreed, which is why I'm so disgusted, it's not even a genuine "I believe it's the wrong thing to do", which I could respect as being honest at least, even if I totally opposed that view, but the fact that conservatives will gleefully watch innocent people be slaughtered because it's politically convenient for them, is beyond reprehensible, anyone espousing that view is an unconscionable POS IMO.
It was painful to have Ukrainians heap praise on the USA to myself and American friends over there, "America won't let Russia destroy us, the USA will save us", all the while knowing that the conservatives were railing against the support (and with echos of Afghanistan in my head), Tucker Carlson even going to Hungary to broadcast (Hungary is not a friend to Ukraine and has consistently stymied EU efforts to punish Russia). Thankfully there were many many Americans turning up in Ukraine to not only show support, but give it (and a few who gave their lives). I'm very grateful in particular to a few SF guys who were extremely helpful to me personally and the country as a whole, far beyond proportionate to their number.
TLDR20
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I wish I was in a better position to have helped you personally. I think it is the dream of any SF guy to be in a Ukranian town organizing and supplying a resistance effort, calling in HIMARS on Soviet supply lines while slotting Russians.
The unfortunate reality is people allow petty politics to overrule that, and further our risk adverse command structure up to and including the CinC doesn’t allow for such things.
pardus
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Thank you mate, I sincerely appreciate that.
ThunderHorse
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I don't watch TV other than sports, and if it isn't Rugby, Football, or Triathlon it's not really on my radar. I have been accused of watching Fox News on here...but who is saying any of these things?
In my conservative part of the world dead Russians is similar to the Only Good Commie is a dead Commie.
But hey, the extremes of each party tend to be the same, except they wear different colors of lipstick.
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It’s not necessarily what they say but how they say it. If that makes sense.
"That's fine." - Every wife ever
I'm not opposed to us aiding the Ukraine, quite the contrary, but I am opposed to the announcement of a new aid package seemingly every other week. The US' image has taken a beating over the last two decades, we don't need to promise something we may not deliver. "No buddy, I'll pick you up this weekend and we'll throw the ball around" said every deadbeat dad ever.
If we promise 50 billion in aid or whatever, then wait until we deliver something like 70-80% before announcing a new package. "A-dub, what if they need something not in the first announcement?" Then you change the first aid package to match the current need.
Stop making additional promises before the first ones are even met. Politically driven emotional theater, but...headlines and poll numbers matter.
Here in the US we have, for decades, acted like throwing money at any problem will solve that problem. We need to break that mentality.
If we promise 50 billion in aid or whatever, then wait until we deliver something like 70-80% before announcing a new package. "A-dub, what if they need something not in the first announcement?" Then you change the first aid package to match the current need.
Stop making additional promises before the first ones are even met. Politically driven emotional theater, but...headlines and poll numbers matter.
Here in the US we have, for decades, acted like throwing money at any problem will solve that problem. We need to break that mentality.
TLDR20
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The post this was referring to is an example of how many on the right view this conflict @ThunderHorse. I’m not accusing you of holding this viewpoint, but it is one that is championed by those like Tucker Carlson, and is pervasive on the right.
From everything I've seen, the issue with Ukraine was the level of corruption, prior to Russian invasion and more specifically Hunter Biden, Burisma, Ukraine, blah, blah, blah. Whether there's truth or not, it doesn't matter. The image of conflict of interest for President Biden, is immense.
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I mean I know there was a 5 minute Trump led love affair with Putin but is this for real? Now that Shadow Spear is back online I don’t hang out on the gun board as much, I shudder to think I’m going to wander over there and find a faction of them still pro Putin through all of this shit.
What remains of my once beloved Republican Party continues to peel apart day-by-day and is morphing into a party of self-righteous and triggered buffoons who are no better than the ‘left’ we used to mock.
I feel like a man without a party.
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My man.
TLDR20
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I’m gonna be
on this. Does it matter? Is that why the Russians invaded Ukraine? Is that a reason not to help?
I watch Fox News. I'm not embarrassed to say it.
These types of bills have very broad bipartisan support. But I think it's totally reasonable to expect some fiscal accountability and to be concerned about broadening a conflict to which we are not directly a party.
If there were a Republican in the White House right now, there would be a whole bunch of (D)s voting "no." The main difference is, in that scenario there would be some (R)s doing it as well.
