Multiple shootings + explosions in Paris

[AWP]

I thought we could use a chuckle to break up the doom and gloom. Even my pessimist self needs to laugh now and then.

Back on topic: I would close our borders, if such a thing is possible, to refugees if for no other reason than we had problems before. Christ, we keep kicking the can down the road on our border/ illegal immigrant debate and now we find ourselves with a no-shit security issue. Seriously, Americans will talk about human rights and everything, but let another major attack occur on US soil. The masses will lose their minds.

We had a problem before and we blew it off, how much more do we need before we'll do something about it? The director of the CIA is already calling for more domestic surveillance options, another debate that has airtime and is then quietly pushed aside. Terrorism should force us into action and finding solutions for questions about security, but instead we're talking about fantasy football scandals, Sheen's infected tiger blood, and whatever else.

But, yeah, I'd halt the flow of refugees until we can sort out a lasting solution. That could take forever and a day, but we've dumped on Iraqis and Afghans who sacrificed everything for us and we'll take in people even other Arab/ Muslim nations won't have?

C'mon man...

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Sure. Trying, but they could also be flying in, trekking across from Mexico or Canada, getting into a boat and sailing across the ocean. At least this way(refugee) we know they are here, and can be easier to track.

About the only way I would agree with bringing these refugees into our country. Is if they went into camps, until they were 100% vetted, gainful employment had been procured and there was a strict probationary period with periodic check up, etc.

I'm not apposed to good people coming here and making a new life for themselves, that's the American dream at its finest. I am however, against half cocked emotionally and politically fueled ideas, that put our citizens at risk.

On another note, with regards to border security and or "sealing" the S/W border. It's not possible, the terrain is inhospitable for any sustained operations. Strategic fencing, high traffic area patrolling and 100% ISR coverage is about as good as its going to get.

Anyone who disagrees, I'm more than willing to take you on an outing in S/W Texas and show you exactly what I mean...

 

[Blizzard]

Sure. Trying, but they could also be flying in, trekking across from Mexico or Canada, getting into a boat and sailing across the ocean. At least this way(refugee) we know they are here, and can be easier to track.

No one is attempting to track them once they enter. That fact has been made perfectly clear by resettlement groups.

As to the comment(s) about borders being functionally "open", perhaps. Without drifting too far off topic, again, I understand the argument and, while such a comment may be a bit of an overstatement, the point is a fair one. However, they're still here illegally and, if caught, subject to detainment and deportation. As weak as it's been the last several years, we still do deport people. However, border enforcement really is a separate issue.

All that said, would you give Syrian refugees preference over the thousnds of interpreters/translators that have directly helped our troops in Iraq/Afghanistan, many of whom have been waiting for special Visas for years? If so, why?

Count me as "not on board"!

 

[DA SWO]

I'll post the article later tonight, but the one point the author made is these are migrants, and not refugees.

 

[Kraut783]

It's worth it for the refugees to do through the process.....you see, when they can, they start the process to bring the rest of their family over.

 

[Kraut783]

Mmmm....the definition of a Refugee is "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."

 

[Red-Dot]

And in other news, John Kerry is France to extend our condolences and discuss how we can expand our cooperation.

Russia, France pound ISIS targets in Syria

It's difficult to articulate my frustration with the inability/incompetence of our current administration. Whether it be the release of GITMO detainees a day after the attacks in France, announcing the acceptance of refugees in the days following, or announcing status quo on our approach to ISIS. The messages are incredibly poor (to say the least) and the timing of delivery is even worse (hard to believe that's possible). It's truly mindboggling. Hell, even Anonymous has this one figured out and thrown down. The administration's actions are tantamount to the house being on fire and they're out in the front yard arranging flowers.

Did James Taylor accompany him?

 

[Blizzard]

Did James Taylor accompany him?

Not this time. Evidently, this time it was just a one buffoon job.

 

[Brill]

At least this way(refugee) we know they are here, and can be easier to track.

We can't track student and work visa holders!

 

[Rapid]

It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist to not have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you've explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility. It's like a bad Monty Python sketch.

"We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it."

"No you didn't."

"Wait, what? Yes we did..."

"No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons."

"WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers."

"No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so."

"Huh!? Who are you to tell us we're not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being."

"Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that's why you did this. We're sorry."

"What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians - disenfranchisement doesn't even enter into it!"

"Listen, it's our fault. We don't blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out."

"Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we're not going to let you take it away from us."

"No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame."

"OMG, how many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?"

 

[JBS]

Definitely NO to refugees.

We all agree that there is almost a 100% certainty that some small but significant percentage of the refugees are going to be trained fighters, with the intent to destroy American targets.

We also all agree that there is no way to reliably screen for the fighters that are infiltrating amongst the refugees.

We need to treat America like we'd treat our home. You wouldn't let "mostly" good crowds of thousands of people in and out of your home at all hours of the night, especially with the (almost certain) knowledge that, say, .5% of that crowd wants (and knows how) to kill you, your wife, your son, your daughter. That same 0.5% has literally been practicing to kill you and your family by strangling and torturing dogs, cats, rats, goats for years as they harden themselves against their victims' plea for mercy.

Still on board? If so, let's make sure the refugees settlement camp is in your neighborhood where you can greet them with "free hugs".



EDITED TO ADD: It was mentioned that if they come in through the "vetting" process, (which anyone who knows anything about it knows it's a joke) they will be easier to track. So, now we're going to "track" 20,000 to 30,000 people? Because that's kind of the problem. When you can't reliably vet, you can't single out that sample that requires the tracking. So you have to "track" them all.

 

[DA SWO]

Mmmm....the definition of a Refugee is "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."

Historically families went as refugees, not just a single person.
That's the point the author was making (I'll post the article in a couple of hours)

 

[Trev]

129 People dead in a major city this far west-ward. ISIS openly says they plan on mixing terrorists in with the refugees. A Canadian Soldier and an RCAF Firefighter killed on Canadian soil. The Canadian Parliment attacked. ISIS plans cyber attack on the UK. And the only thing people want to talk about now is Charlie Sheen's HIV. (I'm honestly not supprised he has it.) We need world leaders like this again.

 

[DA SWO]

Here is the link to the article

16 Of The Worst Ways To Respond To ISIS' Paris Attack

and the specific paragraph (there is a link in the 1st paragraph that will take you to another article)

Millions of people have left Syria in search of better economic prospects or relief from the ongoing civil war. As discussed in “When Is A Refugee Really A Migrant?” there are differences between different groups of people. For refugees, you frequently see entire families leaving and both men and women leaving. For migrants seeking work, different patterns emerge. In the case of the current migrant/refugee crisis, more than 70 percent are adult males, and only about 15 percent are children. It’s unclear why the demographics are so overwhelmingly adult and male, but it’s something journalists and policy makers should be interested in answering, particularly as they position the crisis as one affecting refugees.

Related to this discussion, one of the terrorists in Paris had a Syrian passport with him that he used to come in — with refugees — to France and passed through five countries on his way there.

Obama has promised to take in 10,000 Syrian refugees this fiscal year. Some Americans question whether the country’s security bureaucracy would protect against threats from eager ISIS terrorists. Americans are concerned about border security in general, even before wondering if the government can handle something as delicate as a resettlement program. As mentioned above, more than half of the country’s governors are expressing concern about the plan. In fact, only 14 percent of the states are still accepting Syrian refugees. Other Americans say that it’s the country’s humanitarian duty to welcome Syrians. To my mind, both concern for security of the country and for Syrians in need are understandable.

But people pretty much lost their minds when discussing the situation. Some GOP presidential candidates, such as Mike Huckabee and Chris Christie, went way overboard in expressing concerns about security. Others caricatured security concerns with a notable lack of charity

 

[Kraut783]

Good article, but still say refugee.....as they are using the status of refugee to be able to gain a status in a country offering refugee status for people.

 

[DA SWO]

Good article, but still say refugee.....as they are using the status of refugee to be able to gain a status in a country offering refugee status for people.

That's why we need to change it to migrants.
The next wave from CentAm will claim refugee status and we are fucked.

 

[dsumner]

I would agree on the vast majority. I cant remember where I saw it, but it was something like this: If you had a large bowl full of grapes and you knew that only one of them was poisonous, but you didn't know which one, would you still eat them?

My question is this, using that same logic, the next time someone tries to pass legislation to ban firearms, based on the fact that someone, somewhere might use one of those firearms to commit a crime, are you going to support it with the same vigor as some of the suggestions being floated about allowing Muslims into the country. Especially when I can actually show you many Americans have been killed using firearms vs. how man have been killed in terrorist attacks committed by Muslim refugees.

 

[policemedic]

So you're trying to equate something that is intrinsically dangerous regardless of the possessor's intent (a poisonous grape) with a neutral mechanical object whose danger is completely dependent on its user?

You may want to revisit that exercise in logic.

 

[Dame]

What do you want to bet they aren't done counting these up yet?

The full scale of the trade in false passports that allows terrorists to slip into Europe was exposed last night.

It lets Islamic State fanatics who are bent on murder pose as refugees fleeing war and persecution.

Eight migrants have reached Europe using documents almost identical to those carried by one of the Paris suicide bombers.

EIGHT migrants have same papers as those found on suicide bomber

 

[Dienekes]

@dsumner I believe you missed the point of the metaphor