Raid on President Trump's Home

[Topkick]

wonder what the reason might be that Soros is accused much more frequently or being a pupmaster trying to influence the country when he's just one of multiple rich people doing it?*

I won't defend Soro's or the Koch's. I also wouldn't question why anyone would question Soro's influence. I've said it before, whataboutism is okay. We can learn from it.

 

[amlove21]

@Cookie_ here is the difference- Biden clearly violated USC. Trump takes a discussion to get there; ‘intent’ wasn’t part of the liability crime until Comey argued it into existence with (another) criminal case, being Hillary.

Have documents? Are they classified? Can you declassify? If those answers are ‘yes, yes, no’, then you’re guilty. It’s a liability crime.

Hillary, Biden- guilty. Trump- needs an investigation but he can declassify at will so it’s moot.

So that’s the difference. Just wanna be clear. The reason no one gets prosecuted (mark the time) is now that the precedence is set, you can’t actually punish criminals (Hillary, Biden) without absolving Trump for not-even-in-the-same-USC-governed-actions as the other two.

 

[Marauder06]

@Cookie_ here is the difference- Biden clearly violated USC. Trump takes a discussion to get there; ‘intent’ wasn’t part of the liability crime until Comey argued it into existence with (another) criminal case, being Hillary.

Have documents? Are they classified? Can you declassify? If those answers are ‘yes, yes, no’, then you’re guilty. It’s a liability crime.

Hillary, Biden- guilty. Trump- needs an investigation but he can declassify at will so it’s moot.

So that’s the difference. Just wanna be clear. The reason no one gets prosecuted (mark the time) is now that the precedence is set, you can’t actually punish criminals (Hillary, Biden) without absolving Trump for not-even-in-the-same-USC-governed-actions as the other two.

Additional thoughts: the President has the ability to pre-emptively pardon anyone, IIRC including himself. And he has the power to de-classify. I don't know that he has the power to retroactively declassify.

So President Biden will get impeached (prediction) but even if there was the political stomach for anything criminal, he can pardon himself, his son, anyone he wants. Over anything. So a lot of this is useless while he's still in office. Maybe we can save it for President DeSantis's administration...

 

[Cookie_]

@Cookie_ here is the difference- Biden clearly violated USC. Trump takes a discussion to get there; ‘intent’ wasn’t part of the liability crime until Comey argued it into existence with (another) criminal case, being Hillary.

Have documents? Are they classified? Can you declassify? If those answers are ‘yes, yes, no’, then you’re guilty. It’s a liability crime.

Hillary, Biden- guilty. Trump- needs an investigation but he can declassify at will so it’s moot.

So that’s the difference. Just wanna be clear. The reason no one gets prosecuted (mark the time) is now that the precedence is set, you can’t actually punish criminals (Hillary, Biden) without absolving Trump for not-even-in-the-same-USC-governed-actions as the other two.

I don't disagree with your assessment here.

The Trump doc case goes back to the "if he declassified it in his head and nobody else knows about it, is it declassified?" discussion we've had ad nauseum on here, so I don't wanna rehash that.

Fully agree that the Comey-Hillary thing is basically going to prevent any charges from this moving forward.

Idk if we'll ever get back to holding leaders (of any party) responsible if this goes way you're predicting with your last sentence.

Additional thoughts: the President has the ability to pre-emptively pardon anyone, IIRC including himself. And he has the power to de-classify. I don't know that he has the power to retroactively declassify.

So President Biden will get impeached (prediction) but even if there was the political stomach for anything criminal, he can pardon himself, his son, anyone he wants. Over anything. So a lot of this is useless while he's still in office. Maybe we can save it for President DeSantis's administration...

There's a lot of Presidential powers conversations that haven't really been had before that are popping up. Does the President have the ability to declass docs he had after the fact?

Probably 30 different answers proposed for that question (my answer would be "no".)

A self pardon is theoretically possible, but I think that option would be nuclear regardless of party.
Playing "I'm rubber your glue" with a criminal charge as President is how what, 1/2 of the South American/African dictatorships came about?

 

[amlove21]

I don't disagree with your assessment here.

The Trump doc case goes back to the "if he declassified it in his head and nobody else knows about it, is it declassified?" discussion we've had ad nauseum on here, so I don't wanna rehash that.

Fully agree that the Comey-Hillary thing is basically going to prevent any charges from this moving forward.

Idk if we'll ever get back to holding leaders (of any party) responsible if this goes way you're predicting with your last sentence.





There's a lot of Presidential powers conversations that haven't really been had before that are popping up. Does the President have the ability to declass docs he had after the fact?

Sort of a weird experiment here- but you’re assuming there is a moment, and then ‘after the fact’, or retroactively. There isn’t.

The president can literally grab some SCI out of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs hands (after, presumably, calling him a p*say and stealing his girl), keep it, think to himself “these aren’t classified anymore” and that’s that. No memo, no statement, no process. That’s legit the end of it.

So saying ‘after the fact’ isn’t apropos of this conversation- cause there’s no ‘fact’. It just is, whenever he whims. The president took the documents when he was president. Only gate/requirement.

 

[Cookie_]

Sort of a weird experiment here- but you’re assuming there is a moment, and then ‘after the fact’, or retroactively. There isn’t.

The president can literally grab some SCI out of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs hands (after, presumably, calling him a p*say and stealing his girl), keep it, think to himself “these aren’t classified anymore” and that’s that. No memo, no statement, no process. That’s legit the end of it.

So saying ‘after the fact’ isn’t apropos of this conversation- cause there’s no ‘fact’. It just is, whenever he whims. The president took the documents when he was president. Only gate/requirement.

That "after the fact" bit was in response to @Marauder06 wondering if the President(Biden) can retroactively declass stuff.

I read that as wondering if Biden could say;

"Sure those were Secret/TS documents I wasn't allowed to have at the time I had them, but now that I'm President I'm gonna declass them backdated to 201× so I actually didn't violate policy". (Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you Mara).

 

[amlove21]

That "after the fact" bit was in response to @Marauder06 wondering if the President(Biden) can retroactively declass stuff.

I read that as wondering if Biden could say;

"Sure those were Secret/TS documents I wasn't allowed to have at the time I had them, but now that I'm President I'm gonna declass them backdated to 201× so I actually didn't violate policy". (Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you Mara).

Yeah, tracking- but those documents weren’t taken when he was president. They can verify (and have) that they were removed when he was VP. You can’t ‘backdate it’ in the context you’re saying.

You can declassify docs and then take them; you can’t take documents and then say ‘I see you found these; I’m declassifying them via Time Machine with powers I have now, not the authority I had then.’

And the president (and his legal team) have already admitted as such- he took classified out of approved storage when he didn’t have the authority. That’s a clear violation, where what trump did was absolutely not. Not even the same ballpark. And that’s *without* knowing what’s in the Biden stash.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

 

[ThunderHorse]

That "after the fact" bit was in response to @Marauder06 wondering if the President(Biden) can retroactively declass stuff.

I read that as wondering if Biden could say;

"Sure those were Secret/TS documents I wasn't allowed to have at the time I had them, but now that I'm President I'm gonna declass them backdated to 201× so I actually didn't violate policy". (Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you Mara).

Not how this works...

 

[Marauder06]

That "after the fact" bit was in response to @Marauder06 wondering if the President(Biden) can retroactively declass stuff.

I read that as wondering if Biden could say;

"Sure those were Secret/TS documents I wasn't allowed to have at the time I had them, but now that I'm President I'm gonna declass them backdated to 201× so I actually didn't violate policy". (Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you Mara).

Yes, that's what I was asking.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Let's get these impeachment hearings rolling. Because Trump had a specific storage room for his documents.

Biden seems to be shitting Obama era documents from every place he has a lease or property...

Yes, more classified documents were found yesterday.

Additional Documents Found at Biden’s Wilmington Home, White House Says

WASHINGTON — President Biden’s aides found additional pages of classified information at his Delaware home this week, the White House said on Saturday, bringing the tally to six pages uncovered this week.

The additional pages, a person with direct knowledge of the matter said, were discovered hours after a White House statement on Thursday that cited only one that had turned up in a storage area adjacent to the garage of his Wilmington home. Justice Department employees had gone to retrieve that page, which Mr. Biden’s aides had discovered the night before.

The revelation came as Mr. Biden’s lawyers provided new details about their unfolding discovery over the past two months of classified materials from his time as vice president at his house and an office he used before beginning his 2020 campaign for the White House. Attorney General Merrick B. Garland appointed a special counsel this week to investigate Mr. Biden’s handling of classified materials.

And of course the Washington Post is just pushing editorials about how this isn't as bad as Trump instead of just reporting the news. Unsurprising since Bezos is a blue anon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614295078180368384

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

Let's just go out on a limb and assume not only is there more documents out there, but Ol' H. Biden probably got his hands on some...

 

[Marauder06]

Let's just go out on a limb and assume not only is there more documents out there, but Ol' H. Biden probably got his hands on some...

This whole thing is dirty, and again I wonder why it appears that his party has turned on him. There was so much support for him to get into the presidency--or to at least keep Trump out of it--that it now seems pretty apparent that there is a concerted effort to hang him out to dry on this.
Also, I still don't get why you sent your personal attorney to clean out a storage closet at your think tank. That's... some intern-level shit. Not your very expensive, billable-hour working professional. Unless you knew that there was going to be some "there" there. And if you did, then what kind of personal attorney dimes you out instead of protecting your interests? And if you knew you you had a bunch of docs in your GSCIF and in several other locations, why would you not send fixers out to cover it all up? Especially given the lengths of lying, coverup, and conspiracy that went into getting him elected in the first place.

This scandal is weird. Either this is a concerted effort to get rid of President Biden, or it's a sleight of hand distraction for something much bigger that we don't know about yet.

 

[DA SWO]

Let's just go out on a limb and assume not only is there more documents out there, but Ol' H. Biden probably got his hands on some...

Which means China and Russia had access.

 

[Chopstick]

@Marauder06 I totally agree this scandal is very weird. The documents and the timing and the places etc. I may be watching too many movies but part of me is wondering what exactly was up for bargaining in those 15 votes for Speaker Of The House

 

[Topkick]

still don't get why you sent your personal attorney to clean out a storage closet at your think tank.

I've also been thinking this over. If I was your attorney, I wouldn’t go clean out your office/garage/think tank. You have people for that.

 

[ThunderHorse]

This whole thing is dirty, and again I wonder why it appears that his party has turned on him. There was so much support for him to get into the presidency--or to at least keep Trump out of it--that it now seems pretty apparent that there is a concerted effort to hang him out to dry on this.
Also, I still don't get why you sent your personal attorney to clean out a storage closet at your think tank. That's... some intern-level shit. Not your very expensive, billable-hour working professional. Unless you knew that there was going to be some "there" there. And if you did, then what kind of personal attorney dimes you out instead of protecting your interests? And if you knew you you had a bunch of docs in your GSCIF and in several other locations, why would you not send fixers out to cover it all up? Especially given the lengths of lying, coverup, and conspiracy that went into getting him elected in the first place.

This scandal is weird. Either this is a concerted effort to get rid of President Biden, or it's a sleight of hand distraction for something much bigger that we don't know about yet.

Because he's a bumbling idiot who should have been 25th'd the moment he took his oath of office. This way his handlers show him as honest and forthright Joe. You know, the guy want to have a beer with. Trying to make him out to be Clinton except the beer summit happened with Obama who is a straight snob. But Joe is everyman, except it's your dementia riddled grandpa in office and not someone as sharp your Grandma who could still swing a frying pan at your head the day before she died.

 

[Cookie_]

This way his handlers show him as honest and forthright Joe.

100% what I think as well.

It's an attempt to play himself up as "honest Joe" because the DNC heads (who are always behind about 4 Years in national politics) think he'll be up against Trump. They're trying to steel up Biden for talking points against the opponent they want, not the one they'll probably get (DeSantis).

 

[Topkick]

100% what I think as well.

It's an attempt to play himself up as "honest Joe" because the DNC heads (who are always behind about 4 Years in national politics) think he'll be up against Trump. They're trying to steel up Biden for talking points against the opponent they want, not the one they'll probably get (DeSantis).

Maybe, but this fiasco is just making honest Joe look more bumbling and less presidential.

 

[Chopstick]

@Topkick The big guy doesn't work for you!