The "CrossFit Culture" is a bunch of DORKS!!!

[amlove21]

When an elite level athlete in a CF competition gets hurt, it's because of CF. When an elite level athlete gets hurt in any other competition, it's an unfortunate accident that may happen .

The irony here is pretty thick. All of your videos are of people getting injured, lifting weights in sanctioned meets- I would agree that they were hurt because of their sport, which is the exact point people are making about crossfit. Your above quote should be "When an elite athlete in a CF competition gets hurt, it's because of CF. When an elite athlete gets hurt in any other competition, it's because of that other competition.

If the guys in your videos weren't 100% committed to their sport, which is inherently dangerous at some point, they would not have injured themselves. There is no delineation, imo, between the two. The problem presents itself, however, when...

It does look like some type of injury occurs as he's standing the lift up. It looks like he essentially collapses, like it wasn't a bail attempt.

So he basically said what all the other critics say… "I don't like the programming"

I hadn't seen the context of the workout Kevin Ogar was injured on, and after seeing it, I 100% agree that it was an extremely poor choice for a workout. CF has got to start taking some responsibility for these kinds of things and providing more regulation if needed. Shrugging your shoulders and pretending like there was nothing that could have prevented this is absurd, and that's what the majority of the CF community seems to be doing.

Let's have a little thought experiment. Let's say we could tell exactly when Kevin injured himself. After a couple days, staring at the video for quite a while, listening to 1st hand accounts- let's say the cluttered platform and weights behind him weren't the issue. Let's say it truly was a "non-CF specific freak injury". This, by the way, is the worst possible scenario for CF. But let's say that some deformation or previous injury of a guy that hang snatches 275lbs presented itself here, idiopathically. Just up an appears. What then?

If we believe the above scenario, then the only thing we have left is blame on the organizers of the event, the programming of the event, and the people physically setting up the venue. Which, it needs to be said- isn't crossfit HQ. This is by design, btw. If these little "throwdowns" are only implicitly (not explicitly) sanctioned by HQ, then culpability for injuries (of which there are MANY) incurred at these events is easily avoided by Glassman et al. If Kevin Ogar were to sue, and you were his lawyer- what would you tell him to do?

Couple that with some really good "groupthink" or "brand loyalty" or "cult mentality", and what you are left with is an organization that knowingly distances itself from it's "affiliates" (because franchise indicates partnership with the parent organization, not just affiliation) to avoid legal situations like these. Will HQ put up a link for Kevin Ogar? Sure! Will they throw him a donation and put how well their "community" supports one of their "warriors" when something like this happens? Absolutely.

But watch what happens if Kevin Ogar sues. All this flowery bullshit will disappear and he will join the ranks of Makimba. Character assassination, ridicule as a community of an injured vet. The second Makimba entered litigation, he was ostracised.

I may agree with @goon175 as far as "I won't paint the whole community as douchebags", but I know who I will label as a group of money hungry vipers- all of HQ.

So yeah, I think a valid point can be made about programming being a concern - but I am not going to paint the CF community in broad strokes and say they are all bad either....One thing I will concede all day long is that CF HQ needs to start vetting who they allow to affiliate MUCH more intensively; that will go a long way in improving the legitimacy of the sport.

This, my friend, will never ever happen. Greg Glassman doesn't give a shit about the "legitimacy of the sport", no more so than some white dude with expendable income getting paralyzed at the equivalent of an intramural exercise competition. He cares about the free press, and the 30 (THIRTY) level one certs this weekend, at $30,000 a class.

 

[ThunderHorse]

In regards to being an affiliate rather than a franchise. I'm deducing this based on your post @amlove21 that the original idea was take the money from the certs and run. Why do I say that? Because it's obvious that at the time CrossFit box #1 didn't have the capital to go chain mode and it put the capital issues on individual gym owners. And now, now they have the capital, but with just charging people for certs they are intentionally distancing themselves from litigation.

 

[DAVE101]

I'm not really a fan of wall balls.

 

[goon175]

but I know who I will label as a group of money hungry vipers- all of HQ.

Greg Glassman doesn't give a shit about the "legitimacy of the sport"

Completely agree. I, to this day, do not understand why Glassman doesn't partake in what his company sells. Yeah, got it, he was injured or whatever… but we have youtube videos of multiple amputees doing benchmark WOD's - he can't go and scale his workouts like he professes to everyone else?

I think we discussed this earlier in the thread, how you can only claim to like Crossfit but not HQ for so long… but that is still basically where I stand.

The irony here is pretty thick. All of your videos are of people getting injured, lifting weights in sanctioned meets- I would agree that they were hurt because of their sport, which is the exact point people are making about crossfit. Your above quote should be "When an elite athlete in a CF competition gets hurt, it's because of CF. When an elite athlete gets hurt in any other competition, it's because of that other competition.

What I am getting at, is that when an injury happens in CF everyone jumps to that injury being justification of why CrossFit is bad and no one should do it and your stupid if you do; where as the injuries sustained at those other events are never (or rarely… can't argue in absolutes) used against the sport as a justification of why you shouldn't do it.

 

[amlove21]

What I am getting at, is that when an injury happens in CF everyone jumps to that injury being justification of why CrossFit is bad and no one should do it and your stupid if you do; where as the injuries sustained at those other events are never (or rarely… can't argue in absolutes) used against the sport as a justification of why you shouldn't do it.

I'll agree with that.

I think the difference is that the injuries people talk about all the time- blown shoulders, achilles ruptures, various musculoskelatal anomalies- these things are far more prevalent than they should be, and it's rife throughout the community. As many as 200 reported cases of rhabdo? These things are inexorably linked to crossfit- and worn as a badge of honor. What now, an Uncle Paralysis clown? For those that might be offended by that- that wasn't a joke. That's how this "community" works.

Granted, the focus group is much, much larger, but if we looked at injury rates across the CF world compared to sports of equal age group (I'm saying 30-40 adult soccer, or flag football, not pro's) you would plotz.

In regards to being an affiliate rather than a franchise. I'm deducing this based on your post @amlove21 that the original idea was take the money from the certs and run. Why do I say that? Because it's obvious that at the time CrossFit box #1 didn't have the capital to go chain mode and it put the capital issues on individual gym owners. And now, now they have the capital, but with just charging people for certs they are intentionally distancing themselves from litigation.

I won't even begin to posit an idea, because that's just intellectually dishonest on my part to do so.

But Greg and Laura Glassman started crossfit out of Laura's moms garage. They posted the workouts on the internet for free for quite a while, and then it blew up. I can't knock the hustle at all- I have said I don't know how many times that I would not think twice about opening a gym. It would take only about 2 years to get profitable, and in that time all you would have to do is program smart, use the name, and actually care about your client base. From there? Simple.

You charge $120-210 a month. The business model is ridiculously well thought out, or at least it appears that way. No risk to HQ, you pay the tithing every year to The Man ($3000 a year per affiliate) and you hold cert after cert after cert (anyone remember Buddy Lee?) for up to $1000 a pop. Not too shabby.

 

[ThunderHorse]

When you walk into the g

I'll agree with that.

I won't even begin to posit an idea, because that's just intellectually dishonest on my part to do so.
It would take only about 2 years to get profitable, and in that time all you would have to do is program smart, use the name, and actually care about your client base. From there? Simple.

A friend of mine does this: he has roughly 50 clients, the rate each pays depends on how many days they use the gym. $160 is unlimited lift time, yoga, and ju jitsu. The Yoga and Ju Jitsu came a lot further down the road and most of the yoga clients don't lift and aren't counted in that number. Each client has their own programmed workout and a clip board. He programs the weights for the lift plan each week based on the previous week's numbers.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Why in the world is the XFit regional schedule so spread out?
http://games.crossfit.com/article/2014-regional-venues-and-crossfit-games-dates

 

[PattyW]

I totally agree! Kevin Ogar and his coaching staff should have known better. As professional athletes and as a professional coaching staff, they should have seen the event line up and not signed up. (I know that's not what you were saying.)

Also, strength doesnt mean anything here; he wasn't paralyzed by trying a weight well above his PR with shitty form. The event space was set up poorly and didn't give him room to dump safely, and the fucking guy 1 foot from him didn't know enough to save Kevin Ogar because crossfit is run by a bunch of fucks that took a 3 day course and think they're olympic lifting coaches.

If you know about olympic liting you can tell he catches the snatch an is standing up with a relatively easy weight for him. You can also see that for some reason (his spinal cord breaking) he drops the weight as he is almost fully extended or cmpleting the lift. So it WAS a freak accident most likely caused by a minor pre existing injury that he might not of even known about, such as a slight crack in his vertebrae. It is obvious that the bar hits him, but from what I can see he is paralyzed on his way up causing him to let go of the bar and fall to the ground.

 

[amlove21]

If you know about olympic liting you can tell he catches the snatch an is standing up with a relatively easy weight for him. You can also see that for some reason (his spinal cord breaking) he drops the weight as he is almost fully extended or cmpleting the lift. So it WAS a freak accident most likely caused by a minor pre existing injury that he might not of even known about, such as a slight crack in his vertebrae. It is obvious that the bar hits him, but from what I can see he is paralyzed on his way up causing him to let go of the bar and fall to the ground.

We know that now- my comment was posted very close to the injury, but I still have no problem saying I believe my early statement to be wrong.

As I said before, though- this is the absolute worst possible scenario for CF in general. So, we can rule out the event space causing the accident with some degree of certainty? Done. I'll happily grant that. So now, what are we left with? An athlete who was paralyzed by a set of exercises common to CF.

Sooooo, ipso facto, that leads me to believe that Kevin Ogar was indeed paralyzed by CF programming. I'd be interested to hear any sort of rebuttal to this hypothesis- he was a CF athlete, competing in a well known CF event, programmed by CF coaches/trainers/event organizers. He was 100% more paralyzed at the end of the comp than at the start.

This is going to be a field day if Kevin Ogar sues, as I have stated before. Any first year law student would be able to garner quite the commission from this case. Speaking litigiously, there is no such thing as a "freak accident" these days. You're telling me an old lady can sue McDonald's for her coffee being too hot, and this would be an issue?

Something to the tune of, "Your honor, my client gave his entire life to this sport- the sport of fitness. He supported this community, and it cost him his legs. His life is irreparably harmed by his desire to be part of this community. Not only was Kevin injured by a CF event, his injury, most likely, was originally received and agravated by CF. And I have some doctors that will attest to that fact, and I would like to admit the injury rates suffered by the CF community as evidence to it's extremely dangerous nature into evidence." would work very well.

 

[goon175]

We know that now- my comment was posted very close to the injury, but I still have no problem saying I believe my early statement to be wrong.

As I said before, though- this is the absolute worst possible scenario for CF in general. So, we can rule out the event space causing the accident with some degree of certainty? Done. I'll happily grant that. So now, what are we left with? An athlete who was paralyzed by a set of exercises common to CF.

Sooooo, ipso facto, that leads me to believe that Kevin Ogar was indeed paralyzed by CF programming. I'd be interested to hear any sort of rebuttal to this hypothesis- he was a CF athlete, competing in a well known CF event, programmed by CF coaches/trainers/event organizers. He was 100% more paralyzed at the end of the comp than at the start.

This is going to be a field day if Kevin Ogar sues, as I have stated before. Any first year law student would be able to garner quite the commission from this case. Speaking litigiously, there is no such thing as a "freak accident" these days. You're telling me an old lady can sue McDonald's for her coffee being too hot, and this would be an issue?

Something to the tune of, "Your honor, my client gave his entire life to this sport- the sport of fitness. He supported this community, and it cost him his legs. His life is irreparably harmed by his desire to be part of this community. Not only was Kevin injured by a CF event, his injury, most likely, was originally received and agravated by CF. And I have some doctors that will attest to that fact, and I would like to admit the injury rates suffered by the CF community as evidence to it's extremely dangerous nature into evidence." would work very well.

I can agree with that. There are risks associated with the sport, just like any other - heck, even more so than other sports. But I would say it's not nearly as dangerous as football, rugby, or hockey as far as serious injuries go. The rate of TBI in football is nothing to blink at. But yes, ultimately, when you sign up for the comp you know that the risk of injury is there, and unfortunately sometimes it's not just an ankle sprain or a pulled muscle.

 

[amlove21]

I can agree with that. There are risks associated with the sport, just like any other - heck, even more so than other sports. But I would say it's not nearly as dangerous as football, rugby, or hockey as far as serious injuries go. The rate of TBI in football is nothing to blink at. But yes, ultimately, when you sign up for the comp you know that the risk of injury is there, and unfortunately sometimes it's not just an ankle sprain or a pulled muscle.

Yeah, I totally agree with all that.

And I want to make something clear- Kevin Ogar's injury is f*c&^%g awful. I have already donated to his link, and I just can't get over what a crappy deal he got handed. It's truly a tragedy, and I hope he continues to be the beast he has already proven to be. All of my ire is more at CF HQ in general, and in no way Kevin, his family, or anyone associated with him.

 

[SkrewzLoose]

Quick question...
Did a METCON last week that was:
10 wall balls
20 box jumps
400m run

I started about 5 seconds late because I was tying a shoe, anyhow, I get to the box jumps and I notice the guy beside me finishes (box jumps) in what seems like a stupidly short amount of time. I notice this for about 2 rounds, then I start counting how many he does because at one point he's a full round ahead of me. He's only doing 12-15 box jumps every time. I don't say anything and he posts his score of something retarded like 8 rounds + 9 or whatever. Fast forward to tonight and we have: 20 wall balls + 200m run. He does the same fucking thing. He's only doing 14-15 wall balls every time. I don't know if the guy just seriously loses count EVERY single time or if he's short changing it so his number of rounds look good.
It obviously has zero effect on my workout, progress, etc, but it bugs the shit out of me. If you're in my shoes, do you say something to one of the coaches or just let it be?

 

[goon175]

Quick question...
Did a METCON last week that was:
10 wall balls
20 box jumps
400m run

I started about 5 seconds late because I was tying a shoe, anyhow, I get to the box jumps and I notice the guy beside me finishes (box jumps) in what seems like a stupidly short amount of time. I notice this for about 2 rounds, then I start counting how many he does because at one point he's a full round ahead of me. He's only doing 12-15 box jumps every time. I don't say anything and he posts his score of something retarded like 8 rounds + 9 or whatever. Fast forward to tonight and we have: 20 wall balls + 200m run. He does the same fucking thing. He's only doing 14-15 wall balls every time. I don't know if the guy just seriously loses count EVERY single time or if he's short changing it so his number of rounds look good.
It obviously has zero effect on my workout, progress, etc, but it bugs the shit out of me. If you're in my shoes, do you say something to one of the coaches or just let it be?

Can't stand it when people lie about their score. Generally it's because they lack the confidence to write down what they actually did. Is what it is, and chances are the coach probably notices it as well. Let the guy live in his happy little la-la land and results will speak for themselves. Encourage him to sign up for the Open where you actually have a judge right next to you, maybe it will force him to come to terms with where he's at physically.

 

[amlove21]

Can't stand it when people lie about their score. Generally it's because they lack the confidence to write down what they actually did. Is what it is, and chances are the coach probably notices it as well. Let the guy live in his happy little la-la land and results will speak for themselves. Encourage him to sign up for the Open where you actually have a judge right next to you, maybe it will force him to come to terms with where he's at physically.

This is a problem at every single CF gym I have ever worked out in. My wife coaches nearly full time at our local CF affiliate, and there are always a handful of people that care more about the numbers on the whiteboard more than actually not being a prick about it. Nature of the business, I guess.

You can only do 2 things (really). 1, you just tell yourself that miscounting person is a douche and you discount every single score they ever put up, or 2, you take them aside and tell them they need to stop. Either way, it's more of a problem with you caring than it is with them cheating.

 

[DAVE101]

Are you competing against this guy? If not, I'd say it's irrelevant and you're thinking WAY too much about it. Like you already said, zero impact on your workout.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Are you competing against this guy? If not, I'd say it's irrelevant and you're thinking WAY too much about it. Like you already said, zero impact on your workout.

True, but the guy has zero integrity. I've had guys tell me the same thing in regards to posers. Zero impact on me...

 

[SkrewzLoose]

No, I'm not competing against him. It's just fucking annoying.
I'm not losing any sleep over it.

 

[Teufel]

Quick question...
Did a METCON last week that was:
10 wall balls
20 box jumps
400m run

I started about 5 seconds late because I was tying a shoe, anyhow, I get to the box jumps and I notice the guy beside me finishes (box jumps) in what seems like a stupidly short amount of time. I notice this for about 2 rounds, then I start counting how many he does because at one point he's a full round ahead of me. He's only doing 12-15 box jumps every time. I don't say anything and he posts his score of something retarded like 8 rounds + 9 or whatever. Fast forward to tonight and we have: 20 wall balls + 200m run. He does the same fucking thing. He's only doing 14-15 wall balls every time. I don't know if the guy just seriously loses count EVERY single time or if he's short changing it so his number of rounds look good.
It obviously has zero effect on my workout, progress, etc, but it bugs the shit out of me. If you're in my shoes, do you say something to one of the coaches or just let it be?

Weird that I've never had that problem.

 

[Ves]

That video did a great job highlighting one of my biggest flaws in my fitness . . . the lack of Reps for Jesus t-shirts in my wardrobe

 

[Ravage]

I think this guy makes a good argument on the issue: