Topkick
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Ukraine - Russia Conflict
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Friends, things are starting to get a little spicy in this thread. I think it makes for more-interesting reading when we keep the discussion focused on the topics at hand and not on each other.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
We haven't been able to put 200 warships to sea in some time. We don't have the sailors to get all 291 out to sea.
But hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
TLDR20
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I don’t think I would accuse @ThunderHorse of being socialist. Everyone who doesn’t agree isn’t automatically a libtard socialist. Come on folks.
757
Member
Agree. And not everyone who thinks the war should end is a pro-Putin apologist.
I mean, if you REALLY think that Trump is an ego-driven simpleton, this is too easy. If you're Ukraine:
1) Wear a suit. Bro. Come on. "When in Rome... ."
2) Show up and TOTALLY kiss his ass. I'm talking Monica Lewinsky levels of obsequiousness. Play it up for the camera. Make it hard for him to say no.
3) Say words to the effect of, "I normally wear my 'squatting slavs' track suit and boots because my country is at war. But with you Mr. President, for the first time in X years, I feel close enough to peace that I can be, for this moment, in the clothing of a diplomat as I thank you, and the American people, for all of your enormous support to our country as we face down one of the biggest tyrants of our generation."
4) If you're not going to sign the deal, "Mr. President, I understand you asked me here to sign a peace deal. My country and I look forward to working with you and your team on a deal that preserves Ukrainian independence and security and also supports your America First policy."
^or something. Almost anything would have been better than going in there with your literal war boots on after getting all gassed up by the Dems and then getting verbally curb stomped by people who got tired of your shit a long time ago.
1) Wear a suit. Bro. Come on. "When in Rome... ."
2) Show up and TOTALLY kiss his ass. I'm talking Monica Lewinsky levels of obsequiousness. Play it up for the camera. Make it hard for him to say no.
3) Say words to the effect of, "I normally wear my 'squatting slavs' track suit and boots because my country is at war. But with you Mr. President, for the first time in X years, I feel close enough to peace that I can be, for this moment, in the clothing of a diplomat as I thank you, and the American people, for all of your enormous support to our country as we face down one of the biggest tyrants of our generation."
4) If you're not going to sign the deal, "Mr. President, I understand you asked me here to sign a peace deal. My country and I look forward to working with you and your team on a deal that preserves Ukrainian independence and security and also supports your America First policy."
^or something. Almost anything would have been better than going in there with your literal war boots on after getting all gassed up by the Dems and then getting verbally curb stomped by people who got tired of your shit a long time ago.
Box
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Whoever on gods green earth told that guy to go into a televised meeting with one of the most ego driven, media saavy, sound-bytes rule the day people on the planet - and then metaphorically wag your dick in his face so the cameras can see you standing up to the Orangeman...
...for fuck sake - that advisor should be locked into the collection tank of a Bagram port-a-shitter that hasn't been pumped a single time in the last 137 days.
Also
before I forget...
...fuck Putin too - fuck them all right in their stupid asses
...for fuck sake - that advisor should be locked into the collection tank of a Bagram port-a-shitter that hasn't been pumped a single time in the last 137 days.
Also
before I forget...
...fuck Putin too - fuck them all right in their stupid asses
SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
Jaknight
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Your 100% right as my dad told me once sometimes your the organ grinder and sometimes your the monkey and when your the monkey you know what to do and Zelensky should have buttoned up his vest put on his little hat and said “Maestro hit the music!!!”
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Just another in a long line of Putin's people being thrown out a window, whether they were the opposition or Olympic heroes.
Jaknight
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- Jun 23, 2018
- Messages
- 785
If I'm a Russian politician, out of an abundance of caution I'd drink one Red Bull a day.
This is a scene from Netflix "Zero Day", except in the show instead of a window they use a bathtub.
I used to do BJJ with a guy who wrestled 3 years at Ohio State. He was not a champion. Two or three people would not be able to throw him out a window.
Coupla things. Seems like it's the right time to bring some balance to everyone's support for "The Borderlands", the slavic name for Ukraine.
1. Historical Context of Ethnic Tensions in Ukraine
• Ukraine has had deep ethnic and linguistic divisions for centuries, particularly between Ukrainian nationalists in the west and Russian-speaking populations in the east and south.
• The region of Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk) and Crimea has historically had strong Russian ties and a predominantly Russian-speaking population.
• After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine inherited these divisions, which have only intensified over time.
2. Post-2014 and the Treatment of Russian-Speakers
• In 2014, after the Euromaidan coup ousted Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, the new Ukrainian government leaned heavily toward NATO and the West.
• New laws were passed restricting the Russian language in public life, education, and media—alienating the Russian-speaking population.
• The Ukrainian military, alongside ultra-nationalist militias like the Azov Battalion, engaged in heavy military campaigns in the Donbas region, where Russian-speaking separatists had declared independence.
• Thousands of civilians were caught in the crossfire, with allegations of war crimes committed by Ukrainian forces against Russian-speaking populations.
3. The Donbas War (2014-2022) Was an Ongoing Conflict
• Ukraine was already at war with its own Russian-speaking separatist regions for eight years before Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022.
• The Minsk Agreements were signed to de-escalate the conflict, but Ukraine failed to fully implement them.
• Over 14,000 people died in the Donbas conflict, many of them civilians.
4. NATO Expansion and Russian Security Concerns
• Since the early 2000s, NATO has expanded eastward, despite prior Western assurances that it wouldn’t.
• Ukraine moving toward NATO membership was a red line for Russia, which views it as an existential threat.
• The U.S. and EU have played a role in influencing Ukrainian policies, making the situation not just a local conflict but part of a larger geopolitical struggle.
There are no good guys in this regional conflict. The EU's GDP is $18.35T. Russia's GDP is $2.02T. If Europe wants to stop buying Russia's gas, strengthen their military, and contain Putin, they can, and they don't need the US to do it. NATO engaging on boots on the ground (Starmer's expressed intent) opens us up to NATO Article 5.
The immoral argument of "Well we are saving money by weakening Russia" is not only illogical, it's morally repugnant.
That position should be examined- in a zero-sum game, Ukraine killing Russians in order to weaken Russia works. In the real world, America is depleting its own resources to support Ukraine, which is weakening Russia, and ignoring China, which is doing nothing. Considering Russia is now indebted to China, and China is calling the shots, Russia will have to assist China if they move on Taiwan, and America has depleted itself in money and equipment. We have weakened our position against the more able foe, China. So no, Ukraine hurting Russia at a savings of America's lives is not a good argument.
That ignores the completely morally bankrupt argument of "It's not Americans dying, it's Ukranians, so that's a win for America." All those morals and values we talk about go right out the window for this part of the argument. "Another man dying for my interests against my enemy is a good thing, and continuing that dying is by extension a good thing, because the other guys are dying too and we don't like the other guys."
BL, I am not pro-Putin, and I am not pro-Zelensky. I am pro-America. There is no rational case to be made for America's continuing involvement in this decades long conflict, and peace must be found.
1. Historical Context of Ethnic Tensions in Ukraine
• Ukraine has had deep ethnic and linguistic divisions for centuries, particularly between Ukrainian nationalists in the west and Russian-speaking populations in the east and south.
• The region of Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk) and Crimea has historically had strong Russian ties and a predominantly Russian-speaking population.
• After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine inherited these divisions, which have only intensified over time.
2. Post-2014 and the Treatment of Russian-Speakers
• In 2014, after the Euromaidan coup ousted Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, the new Ukrainian government leaned heavily toward NATO and the West.
• New laws were passed restricting the Russian language in public life, education, and media—alienating the Russian-speaking population.
• The Ukrainian military, alongside ultra-nationalist militias like the Azov Battalion, engaged in heavy military campaigns in the Donbas region, where Russian-speaking separatists had declared independence.
• Thousands of civilians were caught in the crossfire, with allegations of war crimes committed by Ukrainian forces against Russian-speaking populations.
3. The Donbas War (2014-2022) Was an Ongoing Conflict
• Ukraine was already at war with its own Russian-speaking separatist regions for eight years before Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022.
• The Minsk Agreements were signed to de-escalate the conflict, but Ukraine failed to fully implement them.
• Over 14,000 people died in the Donbas conflict, many of them civilians.
4. NATO Expansion and Russian Security Concerns
• Since the early 2000s, NATO has expanded eastward, despite prior Western assurances that it wouldn’t.
• Ukraine moving toward NATO membership was a red line for Russia, which views it as an existential threat.
• The U.S. and EU have played a role in influencing Ukrainian policies, making the situation not just a local conflict but part of a larger geopolitical struggle.
There are no good guys in this regional conflict. The EU's GDP is $18.35T. Russia's GDP is $2.02T. If Europe wants to stop buying Russia's gas, strengthen their military, and contain Putin, they can, and they don't need the US to do it. NATO engaging on boots on the ground (Starmer's expressed intent) opens us up to NATO Article 5.
The immoral argument of "Well we are saving money by weakening Russia" is not only illogical, it's morally repugnant.
That position should be examined- in a zero-sum game, Ukraine killing Russians in order to weaken Russia works. In the real world, America is depleting its own resources to support Ukraine, which is weakening Russia, and ignoring China, which is doing nothing. Considering Russia is now indebted to China, and China is calling the shots, Russia will have to assist China if they move on Taiwan, and America has depleted itself in money and equipment. We have weakened our position against the more able foe, China. So no, Ukraine hurting Russia at a savings of America's lives is not a good argument.
That ignores the completely morally bankrupt argument of "It's not Americans dying, it's Ukranians, so that's a win for America." All those morals and values we talk about go right out the window for this part of the argument. "Another man dying for my interests against my enemy is a good thing, and continuing that dying is by extension a good thing, because the other guys are dying too and we don't like the other guys."
BL, I am not pro-Putin, and I am not pro-Zelensky. I am pro-America. There is no rational case to be made for America's continuing involvement in this decades long conflict, and peace must be found.
Topkick
Verified Military
