Whats with the muzle up?
US Army SOF Photos
- Thread starter Crusader74
- Start date
Whats with the muzle up?
Oh shit, did he walk that guy right into the hinge (face and shin) of the gate in the 2nd picture? 
Red Ryder
Unverified
LOL sure looks like it.Oh shit, did he walk that guy right into the hinge (face and shin) of the gate in the 2nd picture?
I love this video-
http://www.military.com/video/opera...n-berets-film-2000lb-jdam-drop/1711088601001/
(couldn't get it to embed.)
TLDR20
Verified SOF
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They are prolly in SFAUCC, and tha is what is taught.
why wouldn't they have the muzzle up when assaulting (which is what it looks like they are doing)?
That 1/2 second to bring your weapon up t0 engage your target can be pretty damn important when entering a courtyard and breaching a house.
"High ready" and the "High Port"is the newest old things to come back with great fan fair. Pretty popular since some of the Black Water guys started teaching the "Working bench" thing and several other popular cool guys made it in vogue. Another thing I saw recently at a class we instructed was Police and some military guys with the safety off gun at what we call a "contact ready". We phased that out in about 1993 and it disappeared for many years for numerous to reasons. Allot of new guys re-introducing this stuff and coming full circle but the reasons why have been forgotten as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see guys at "Contact ready" safety off and finger on the trigger very soon again as well...
You should also note the team guys are moving at the "contact ready" in most of the pics as well.
As I always say; "Terrain dictates tactics, mission dictates tempo!". But that and five dollars gets you a cup of coffee.
You should also note the team guys are moving at the "contact ready" in most of the pics as well.
As I always say; "Terrain dictates tactics, mission dictates tempo!". But that and five dollars gets you a cup of coffee.
I don't agree with taking your rifle off safe unless you have actually identified a target and want to kill that person. This obviously doesn't apply to your sidearm where I believe hammer down and safety off is the way to go, so all you have to do is pull the hammer back as you draw.
It's the latest craze with the excuse of time frames and justification that leaves me mystified. I won't be specific but there are some very well known public entities instructing these tactics. I possess strong adverse opinions and experiences that have lead me to the contrary. I have seen allot of changes recently, not for the better and not to my approval. Then again it's not my clients, team or my team-mates. So many opinions and so many in the field instructing that it becomes a moot point until an injury results or a mishap due to poor training foundation. Then it becomes a matter of expert opinion, background, experience and testimony to hold agencies and poor trainers responsible in civil & criminal litigation.
I remember Kyle Lamb making a vid about this:
SEALs have been doing high port for a long time. Supposedly that's so if they come into physical contact with someone they can better melee the guy or something. Recently I notice SF guys doing it. I just don't see any reason to unseat the buttstock. We used to do high port in my platoon when someone pied off a door and you had a guy on both sides of a door to give an overt right away in the dark.
Red Ryder
Unverified
About halfway in Paul Howe explains why SEALs hold high port.
CSM Lamb explains the correct points and thought processes for different ready positions. I concur with the observations and opinions of Kyle and Paul, they are right on their marks. As for the SEALs to the best of my knowledge around 2003-2005 circa they adopted the High port and high ready as a general universal carry position. Or at least it became more popular there. I attended thier CQB course in 1995 embedded with a SEAL platoon (ST#3 Alpha Platoon) as well as Land Warfare with them. At the Team level at that time we used the Low ready and depending on terrain used the high ready. During GOPLAT training with another group in 1996 they / we also used the low ready generally. That was pretty consistent with what I saw from some of the other teams in that time frame. Earlier working with an ODA (7th SFG / 746) 1990-1993 CIRCA (I forgot exact time frames) these techniques were also validated. Of course among numerous other courses and experiences. But that is just me... In 1997 another guy I know attempted to introduce his presentation and open a school around his technique. It was a twist on the five step presentation draw accept you keep your right elbow high at all times while clearing so you can strike in confined space. It looked strange, felt terrible and never caught on but he sold it to numerous folks because of his background. His background was US SPECOPS validated real shooter action dude. Sometimes it don't have to make sense, work or be valid other than some guy with creds tells you it's really cool and the action guys do it. And for many that's enough; buyer beware! This is not a general catch all or insult to anyone. We should all be responsible enough to follow up and research.
One of my personal favorites along with the others above and several others.
"Terrain dictates tactics, mission dictates tempo!"
One of my personal favorites along with the others above and several others.
"Terrain dictates tactics, mission dictates tempo!"
Brill
SOF Support
Glocks don't have an external safety. Oh, you're talking about the gayness that is the M9?
yup, never carried a glock only had the M9.
Brill
SOF Support
"SGT, SGT...Excuse me SGT but your safety is off."
"The M9 doesn't have a safety. It's a de-cocker...Specialist."
"But your safety is still off."
"Sigh."
I have noted recently some instructors teaching removing the butt stock of the weapon, flip the weapon to look into the mag port, rotating it up into a High Ready, depress the mag release, flip the mag out or ripping the mag out with the support hand, get fresh mag and insert, release bolt and go to work. This is an emergency reload or speed reload depending on your background and or instructor background will vary / dictate terminology.
Relative to the safety; that's what I thought as well. Until some knuckle head showed that off recently for me and went into a lengthy description of time frames and the usual stuff / vomit. For range opertions on static facilites KD makes sense. Muzzle up or down personal / unit SOP preference stuff.
"Terrain dictates tactics, mission dictates tempo!"
muzzle up or down? that's like talking about religion and politics!!!!
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