Violence in Baltimore

[TLDR20]

I've heard nothing but that blacks can't be racist because they are a minority.. Is it because they're in a uniform that allows it?

And it absolutely matters. Police brutality is not a race issue in this instance and the slugs of the world like sharpton and the #blacklivesmatter sheep don't have any more of a say than any other rave.

I think people of every race can be racist. I think that people in a position of authority can be more prone to it due to their position. Police brutality and the systemic issues are the problem. I have never said this is a black/white issue. I don't think it is, I think most issues are more complex than a binary problem.

 

[0699]

I think people of every race can be racist. I think that people in a position of authority can be more prone to it due to their position. Police brutality and the systemic issues are the problem. I have never said this is a black/white issue. I don't think it is, I think most issues are more complex than a binary problem.

I agree with you, but I believe there are those (in and out of power) that WANT it to be a race issue. It's a lot easier if you can blame things on an easily identifiable group like whitey, blacks, Jews, etc. When you are trying to blame things on a group that has been hand-selected, sooner or later the question of "who selected them" rears its ugly head...

 

[TLDR20]

I agree with you, but I believe there are those (in and out of power) that WANT it to be a race issue. It's a lot easier if you can blame things on an easily identifiable group like whitey, blacks, Jews, etc. When you are trying to blame things on a group that has been hand-selected, sooner or later the question of "who selected them" rears its ugly head...

That is a good point.

 

[8654Maine]

It is easier to be outraged and indignant when the opposition doesn't look like you, act like you, or live in the same surrounding. I'm talking about being vitriolic from any side.

 

[Centermass]

I would not say that things are more interesting. The race of the police doesn't change the systemic nature of the problems.

I say it does. Now you can throw the "Big, Bad Evil White Cops" premise out the window.

I think people of every race can be racist. I think that people in a position of authority can be more prone to it due to their position. Police brutality and the systemic issues are the problem. I have never said this is a black/white issue. I don't think it is, I think most issues are more complex than a binary problem.

Really? This was an earlier post of yours:

This isn't about resisting arrest. This was about a cuffed prisoner being abused. Proof of systemic racism man, look around.

Unless you were a first hand witness to all the events that unfolded, that statement about a "Cuffed prisoner being abused" appears to me you've already pronounced all involved "Guilty" and passed sentence before anyone of them have had there day in court.

I guess "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't exist in your repertoire.

Sergeant Crowley was thrown under the bus.

The Duke Lacrosse Players and their coach were thrown under the bus.

George Zimmerman was thrown under the bus.

Darren Wilson was thrown under the bus.

And now, those Baltimore Police officers may be facing the same. Until they're adjudicated one way or another, we just don't know.

Here's a novel idea, yeah, I know. I have been known as a simple son of a bitch at times, but how about not rushing to judgement, jumping to conclusions, or letting mob rule, lynch mobs, agendas, pre-conceived notions, or the media overrule the notion or get in the way of "Presumed innocent until proven guilty?"

 

[The Accountant]

The Duke Lacrosse Players and their coach were thrown under the bus.

Not to stray the thread away, but. Perfect example of false accusations ruining lives. Growing up playing lacrosse on Long Island I grew up just a few years younger than a good amount of guys on that team. Personally knowing a few, and knowing the coach from being in the lacrosse community. It was nothing short of a disaster, the school handled it horribly. It ruined the lives of the few guys who were on trial, one of which just recently had an article written about him. To this day he has a hard time finding a job due to the fact when employers research his name that incident pops up. There is a fairly good book written about what happened "Its Not About the Truth". The woman who made these accusations is now in jail for the murder of her boyfriend.

Bringing it back to the topic, all I can say is I hope they get the truth of what happened and handle it accordingly before any more damage is done to peoples lives and/or the city of Baltimore.

 

[TLDR20]

I say it does. Now you can throw the "Big, Bad Evil White Cops" premise out the window.



Really? This was an earlier post of yours:



Unless you were a first hand witness to all the events that unfolded, that statement about a "Cuffed prisoner being abused" appears to me you've already pronounced all involved "Guilty" and passed sentence before anyone of them have had there day in court.

I guess "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't exist in your repertoire.

Sergeant Crowley was thrown under the bus.

The Duke Lacrosse Players and their coach were thrown under the bus.

George Zimmerman was thrown under the bus.

Darren Wilson was thrown under the bus.

And now, those Baltimore Police officers may be facing the same. Until they're adjudicated one way or another, we just don't know.

Here's a novel idea, yeah, I know. I have been known as a simple son of a bitch at times, but how about not rushing to judgement, jumping to conclusions, or letting mob rule, lynch mobs, agendas, pre-conceived notions, or the media overrule the notion or get in the way of "Presumed innocent until proven guilty?"

Here is my thing man, I have stayed out of some other discussions about this because like you I agree that officers are often thrown under the bus in these circumstances. But his neck wasn't broken when he was running away, and it certainly was when he arrived at the hospital. I would consider myself an expert in trauma medicine, and spines do not just sever themselves. So like I said a cuffed prisoner died in police custody. There is no denying that. He was certainly unarmed and he was cuffed.

As to the system being racist I still stand by that. The system isn't white, it is a system. So again I don't think I have said this is a black white issue. I think that black people take the brunt of the system sometimes.

 

[Florida173]

As to the system being racist I still stand by that. The system isn't white, it is a system. So again I don't think I have said this is a black white issue. I think that black people take the brunt of the system sometimes.

It makes it easier to demonize something when you can't quite define it with specifics right?

 

[TLDR20]

It makes it easier to demonize something when you can't quite define it with specifics right?

Well I have given specific examples of the problems. So...I don't know what you want me to say. Let me be perfectly clear with what I am saying so that you can understand it clearly. The American Justice system has tendencies that tend to target blacks and minorities. Regardless of the race of any officer involved in any arrest, when looked at from the big picture there is a pattern that will show. I am not going to once again post the links I have already posted twice. But go through and read them. If they do not convey the message that our system is not doing right by a part of our population than maybe we will just have to disagree. There is a ton of academic research about all the things I have talked about:School to Prison Pipeline, sentencing of minorities, profiling, and many other problems.

I don't know how I can be more clear with what I am saying, but if you want to believe I am only saying that white police are racist to black suspects than believe that to your hearts content. But that would be a myopic view of a complex problem.

 

[Florida173]

Well I have given specific examples of the problems. So...

You're misunderstanding me on what needs to be defined. Tell me about the system, not the problems that have been conflated to be under this system.

 

[TLDR20]

See above, I replied to quickly.

 

[AWP]

There was a recent case where a professional wrestler, Perro Aguayo Jr., died in the ring. Originally his death was considered by many to be caused by Rey Mysterio Jr., a well-known WWE wrestler, until the facts came out later. That didn't stop everyone under the sun from blaming Mysterio and a botched wrestling move. It later came to light that Perro's spinal injury probably occurred in the moments before Mysterio's kick, but Mysterio was the last to touch him in the ring, so it must be Mysterio's "fault", right?

Maybe the gentleman in Baltimore was abused, maybe he wasn't. Maybe his injury was exaggerated when he was placed in vehicle for transport...Dying in police custody doesn't equal abuse and initial narratives are often wrong (Hands up, don't shoot). Many of us were appalled by the Anthony or Zimmerman verdict, but they had their day in court. Good, bad, or other, that's how things work in America and an arrest does not mean someone's guilty.

Well, it isn't supposed to mean they're guilty.

 

[TLDR20]

@Freefalling you are correct, the facts will come to light soon. Maybe he was running with a partially severed spinal cord.maybe he was injured when he was tackled, maybe a lot of things. But having the background I have I trauma medicine, and knowing what I do know about spinal injuries, that is extremely doubtful. People cannot walk around on severed spinal cords.

No one is doubting these guys broke their department policy by not securing the suspect. That had been established as far as I had seen.

 

[AKkeith]

Here is one law professor's take on the case. He thinks it will be thrown out. Interesting read, at least for me, it has more information about the case than other places I have been reading.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/01/l...ercharged-charges-will-likely-be-dismissed/2/

 

[Ranger Psych]

So what if it happened when he was tackled? What's the solution then, just let known, repeat criminals run amok? Taze them so they eat shit "all on their own" but wait, it's a police action being done so even if he curbed himself resisting arrest now the blame in your magical world is back on LE... put the onus where it belongs..... on the douchebag repeat offender back at it again.

 

[TLDR20]

So what if it happened when he was tackled? What's the solution then, just let known, repeat criminals run amok? Taze them so they eat shit "all on their own" but wait, it's a police action being done so even if he curbed himself resisting arrest now the blame in your magical world is back on LE... put the onus where it belongs..... on the douchebag repeat offender back at it again.

If it happened in the course of his arrest then they should be cleared. It was ruled a homicide due to the imprint on his skull from the bolt in the back of the van. That didn't happen in the course of the arrest.

My magical world... What world would that be? The one where blacks and minorities are subject to the same sentencing standards, school opportunities, and a reduced impact of drug offenses? That would be my magical world.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Funny, minorities have more opportunities than the "rest of America", starting with college: http://www.collegescholarships.org/other-minority-scholarships.htm http://www.ed.gov/edblogs/whhbcu/2013/11/21/scholarship-opportunities-for-minority-students/ I personally know, All I had when I went and started college was the Pell grant and my MGIB. yaay for the combat disabled veteran oh wait you're white, here's a double headed dildo you know what to do.

But hey, I'm a straight white male and it's ONLY my experience so it's totally unapplicable, by your own social justice warrior rules.

 

[Salt USMC]

@Ranger Psych TLDR is not trying to marginalize your experiences, nor the experiences of any other poster here. I've said it before but it's worth repeating: Your experiences, while significant, are only applicable to your situation. You cannot extrapolate your own experiences to the macro level because there are just too many factors and externalities to consider. It's kinda like saying "This is how insurgents fight in RC-E, therefore that's how they fight across the entire country."
Your argument of "White privilege doesn't exist because I'm white and had no privilege" essentializes the argument and ignores decades of history. I do agree with you, somewhat: modern scholarship is beginning to say that "white privilege" or "minority privilege" is an oversimplification of the privilege problem. They argue that "class privilege" better captures the range of issues presented by privileging, and would also include experiences like yours that cut across color lines.

 

[TLDR20]

All you had was your MGIB? That is a shitload of money! You earned it, but you certainly shouldn't complain about it. The MGIB is the best tool for advancing in class the USG has ever had.

There are plenty of scholarships available to people of all races. I am a white hetero male, and I receive a scholarship from the state of NC, a Pell Grant, the GI bill, and I will receive a scholarship for being a male in nursing. There are scholarships out there for disabled veterans of all colors. There are of course some that are only available to minorities, just like there are only some scholarships available to women, men, children of veterans and thousands of other random people. Pointing out scholarships doesn't some how prove anything about anything brother.

 

[0699]

Your post.

Look at you taking advantage of all that "white privilege"... :-"