Violence in Baltimore

Take this for what it's worth.

I've been doing this for 24 years. Patrol, Narcotics, Fugitives, SWAT, and some POG staff slots too. Of those 24, the majority were spent in the highest crime districts of one of the busiest cities in America. I say that only for context; I'm no one special and certainly no better than any other constable on patrol anywhere in the world. Hell, some of our members have had longer and/or more illustrious careers wearing a badge than I have. I certainly haven't accomplished all that I wanted (fuck you, hiring freeze).

Freddie Gray appears to have been a career asshole. But that doesn't excuse police misconduct, especially if that misconduct resulted in undeserved injury or death. All the facts aren't in, and we should wait for the results of the investigation to be released before coming to a conclusion. I have full confidence the Baltimore Police Department will conduct a fair, impartial, and thorough investigation and will release the findings as soon as feasible. If the BPD officers involved were at fault, let them face our good justice. No one is above the law...particularly those of us sworn to uphold it.

When a police officer arrests someone, a professional remains dispassionate. Make no mistake, sometimes that's hard to do. But you do it. Because it's not personal and it's not about you. And when it is--when the bad guy assaults you--transport is done by someone else (usually) to ensure unemotional conduct. If you assault the police, you deserve every bit of force applied against you until you stop resisting and you're in cuffs. At that point, you get medical treatment if required or requested and any forcible or punitive measures against you stop. Period.

For the record, the thin blue line is not about protecting cops who break the law or who violate the constitutional rights of those we are sworn to protect.

Every honest cop knows what I mean when I say this.

None of the above in any way excuses the violent, anarchist conduct we are witnessing in Baltimore. Dispassionate observers clearly see the riots have nothing to do with Freddie Gray or police misconduct. The people involved are engaged in criminal conduct; nothing more and nothing less. Freddie Gray is an excuse and not a cause.
 
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@policemedic great post.

I have no excuses for what those kids are doing in Baltimore. It is beyond absurd to me to destroy the city you live in. Most of those doing the rioting are not there for justice, and I dont think what they are doing is right nor justified.

But it is dominating discussion.

Freddie Gray is a household name in America, and he wasn't two weeks ago. And the thing is, it seems like he should be. I'm not attacking individual cops here, but our system is not set up correctly. Our system has problems that need to be addressed.

Unfortunately sometimes it takes riots like this for issues to garner the proper attention. It is stupid and unfortunate, but sometimes it takes flashpoint like this to remind people who don't otherwise see it that there are problems in our cities.

Police brutality is a problem, systemic racism is a problem, we need to work on them as Americans together. But not by burning down our neighborhoods.
 
TLDR20 said:
@policemedic great post.

I have no excuses for what those kids are doing in Baltimore. It is beyond absurd to me to destroy the city you live in. Most of those doing the rioting are not there for justice, and I dont think what they are doing is right nor justified.

But it is dominating discussion.

Freddie Gray is a household name in America, and he wasn't two weeks ago. And the thing is, it seems like he should be. I'm not attacking individual cops here, but our system is not set up correctly. Our system has problems that need to be addressed.

Unfortunately sometimes it takes riots like this for issues to garner the proper attention. It is stupid and unfortunate, but sometimes it takes flashpoint like this to remind people who don't otherwise see it that there are problems in our cities.

Police brutality is a problem, systemic racism is a problem, we need to work on them as Americans together. But not by burning down our neighborhoods.
Click to expand...
How many arrests are made daily? and how many use excessive force?
If a suspect resists arrest does he/she get to go until they feel like being cooperative?
Systemic racism? any proof of that?
 
I'm just gonna leave this here. Nothing of value was lost...

  • March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
  • March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
  • January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
  • January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
  • December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
  • December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
  • January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
  • September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
  • April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
  • July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
  • March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
  • February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
  • August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
  • August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)
 
Ranger Psych said:
I'm just gonna leave this here. Nothing of value was lost...

  • March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
  • March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
  • January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
  • January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
  • December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
  • December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
  • January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
  • September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
  • April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
  • July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
  • March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
  • February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
  • August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
  • August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
  • July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)
Click to expand...
Why does this matter at all? This has no bearing on the fact that an American suffered a massive spinal injury and was denied medical attention while in police custody. Does that not bother you even the slightest?
 
Florida173 said:
Saw some speculation that Gray had spinal surgery recently
Click to expand...
I saw that, as well. I'm not too sure about the source, but it's something that has yet to be discounted. That said, it still does not excuse the six arresting officers for using more force than was necessary to subdue Gray.
 
DA SWO said:
How many arrests are made daily? and how many use excessive force?
If a suspect resists arrest does he/she get to go until they feel like being cooperative?
Systemic racism? any proof of that?
Click to expand...

This isn't about resisting arrest. This was about a cuffed prisoner being abused. Proof of systemic racism man, look around.

"Such approach to policing led to increased arrests. By 2005, well into O’Malley’s tenure as mayor, Baltimore police arrested so many people that judges had to free arrestees because they could not get court hearings within 24 hours, as required, according to the Baltimore Sun. That year, there were 108,447 people arrested in a city of roughly 600,000 residents. According to a June 2010 report by the Justice Policy Institute, about two-thirds of the people in jail were there for non-violent offenses."
In Baltimore they adopted a zero tolerance policy. That policy led to a 1/6 of the population being arrested.

As to systemic racism if you think that a black man can walk down the street the same as a white American you live in a fantasy world. In Chapel Hill I have a friend who gets stopped and frisked many times he is out at night on Franklin Street. I don't know a single white person who has been stopped and frisked.
That is racism, it is a problem.

The U.S. Sentencing Commission reported in March 2010 that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project reports African Americans are 21% more likely to receive mandatory minimum sentences than white defendants and 20% more like to be sentenced to prison than white drug defendants.
The way we prosecute drug crimes is a problem.

The fact that schools that are predominantly black have school resource officers who arrest and criminalize childhood antics, while white kids are just "kids being kids". The school to prison pipeline is a problem.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/tsr/education-under-arrest/school-to-prison-pipeline-fact-sheet/

These are systemic problems in America today.
 
DA SWO said:
How many arrests are made daily? and how many use excessive force?
If a suspect resists arrest does he/she get to go until they feel like being cooperative?
Systemic racism? any proof of that?
Click to expand...
Ill play devil's advocate a bit here- Regardless of the amount of arrests, we have to agree that police brutality is an issue we can't tolerate, right?

As to systemic racism- well, yea, there's a pretty solid record of proof. Blacks haven't even been voting everywhere in this country for 60 years yet! I think there is a systemic race problem in America. I think there is a pronounced systemic issue with police brutality specifically targeting minorities, and the data from just this year absolutely corroborates that statement.

Freddie Gray could have been the second coming of Hannibal Lector for all I care. And yeah, career criminal. But he was killed in police custody, and if your answer to that statement even resembles anything other than, "Yeah, that is fucked up, people shouldn't worry about being killed by the police", well, then you might be part of the issue.
 
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TLDR20 said:
As to systemic racism if you think that a black man can walk down the street the same as a white American you live in a fantasy world. In Chapel Hill I have a friend who gets stopped and frisked many times he is out at night on Franklin Street. I don't know a single white person who has been stopped and frisked.
That is racism, it is a problem.
Click to expand...

I'm unfamiliar with Chapel Hill. What kind of neighborhood is Franklin St.?

I will say that I have legally stopped people who were subsequently cleared (at the scene, and within minutes) of criminal activity based on description and temporal and geographic proximity to a crime. This happens more often in high crime areas than others, for obvious reasons. All of those people got an explanation and apology.

The fact that your friend has been stopped, while unfortunate, does not in and of itself indicate bias. He does, however, deserve to know why he was stopped. Frisking requires greater justification than that required to stop him for investigation.
 
policemedic said:
I'm unfamiliar with Chapel Hill. What kind of neighborhood is Franklin St.?

I will say that I have legally stopped people who were subsequently cleared (at the scene, and within minutes) of criminal activity based on description and temporal and geographic proximity to a crime. This happens more often in high crime areas than others, for obvious reasons. All of those people got an explanation and apology.

The fact that your friend has been stopped, while unfortunate, does not in and of itself indicate bias. He does, however, deserve to know why he was stopped. Frisking requires greater justification than that required to stop him for investigation.
Click to expand...

Franklin Street is the street that fronts UNC-CH, it is nice.
 
amlove21 said:
Ill play devil's advocate a bit here- Regardless of the amount of arrests, we have to agree that police brutality is an issue we can't tolerate, right?

As to systemic racism- well, yea, there's a pretty solid record of proof. Blacks haven't even been voting everywhere in this country for 60 years yet! I think there is a systemic race problem in America. I think there is a pronounced systemic issue with police brutality specifically targeting minorities, and the data from just this year absolutely corroborates that statement.
Click to expand...

This doesn't jive with my experience. Yours may be different, and since I respect you personally I respect your viewpoint.

amlove21 said:
Freddie Gray could have been the second coming of Hannibal Lector for all I care. And yeah, career criminal. But he was killed in police custody, and if your answer to that statement even resembles anything other than, "Yeah, that is fucked up, people shouldn't worry about being killed by the police", well, then you might be part of the issue.
Click to expand...

Here we agree. People occasionally die when they encounter the police and the vast majority of these incidents are justifiable. When they're not, those responsible should be held responsible. As I said, no one is above the law. That said, let's hear all the facts in this case. I have my own opinion, but it isn't supported by anything other than a SWAG, supposition, and (my own) expert analysis at this point.
 
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Hundreds of thousands calls for service are answered everyday by Police.....a small percentage we hear about in the news, again, there is a system in place for investigating, arresting, or firing the perps.

There is a place for protesting, and socially calling attention and addressing the issues. What is happening in Baltimore is criminal behavior....bottom line.
 

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