A
arizonaguide
Guest
Me too. That will be the daily carry with the Buffalo 158's.
Favorite pistol caliber?
- Thread starter 104TN
- Start date
Me too. That will be the daily carry with the Buffalo 158's.
W
WillBrink
Guest
Starts with a 4 and ends with a 5. The 1911 platform shoots all the calibers you list above, so what caliber people prefer is another issue from what platform they prefer. :)
HOLLiS
Verified Military
A friend who has reasonable creds like these guys. I am thinking of a few boxes for my HD stuff.
http://www.rbcd.net/Personal Defense- Ammo.htm
Especially after reading a FBI report on how INeffective the 40S&W with speer gold dots are.
"The results of this FBI analysis really reinforces the importance of shot
placement if you are ever forced to use your gun against an attacker. Police
fired a total of 107 rounds at the single suspect and it took an M4 rifle to
finally incapacitate him. The suspect was able to fire 26 rounds from his
.45 caliber handgun and even reloaded from a box of loose rounds.
3 officers were involved in a shooting this week. An ambush was set up for
the officers prior to their arrival, they took fire while still in their
cruisers. One officer was hit in the forearm, another received wounds to his
forehead from a ricochet, another was injured (NFI). The suspect was armed
with a .45 handgun. The officers were armed with Glock 22's (.40S&W) and
SPEER 180 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Points.
Officers fired on the subject and hit him in the left arm, completely
shattering the bone. He was also hit five times in the chest and abdomen.
All rounds penetrated less than 1 (one inch) (B. All of the rounds expanded
fully but did not cause incapacitation due to the lack of penetration.
According to the Medical Examiner, none of the rounds caused any life
threatening injuries. The subject also received one round into the front of
his throat, it penetrated less than 1in (B as well. The Medical Examiner
stated that the recovered rounds were in pristine condition (still had
rifling marks on them).
The subject was wearing a down jacket at the time of the incident. He was
finally taken down after receiving rounds from an M-4 .223, with Hornady Tap
55 gr ballistic tip rounds and Hornady Tap 72 gr. Hollow Points.
The officer with the M-4 was able to shoot underneath a vehicle and hit the
suspect in the ankle. The officer then flanked the subject, who continued to
engage officers, and was eventually killed by the officer with the M-4.
The subject had a trace amount of marijuana in his system.
Range between subject and officers: 20 feet.
Subject had a t-shirt on under his jacket.
Subject received approximately sixteen .223 rounds, thirteen of these rounds
went completely through. One round struck his hip and completely shattered
it. Another .223 round struck his aorta and another pierced and collapsed
his lung. Both of these rounds lodged themselves inside the subject.
The Medical Examiner stated that the .223 rounds caused massive internal
damage.
This is the second shooting that the PD has experienced where they had to
shoot a subject in excess of ten times with .40 S&W ammo to incapacitate or
kill. There was another incident where a subject was shot inside of his
vehicle. He was struck approximately ten times, all the while continuing to
fire at officers. He was eventually killed after suffering a shot to the
back of his head.
In this same incident, the back of the subject's seat was struck multiple
times, the .40 S&W rounds never penetrated through the seat. In this
incident, all shots had passed through either the windshield or rear window.
Investigators assume that this was the reason for the poor ballistic
performance.
(The) PD is now considering replacing their Glock 22's (.40S&W) with Glock
21's (.45ACP). "
There is more NSFW or public.
http://www.rbcd.net/Personal Defense- Ammo.htm
Especially after reading a FBI report on how INeffective the 40S&W with speer gold dots are.
"The results of this FBI analysis really reinforces the importance of shot
placement if you are ever forced to use your gun against an attacker. Police
fired a total of 107 rounds at the single suspect and it took an M4 rifle to
finally incapacitate him. The suspect was able to fire 26 rounds from his
.45 caliber handgun and even reloaded from a box of loose rounds.
3 officers were involved in a shooting this week. An ambush was set up for
the officers prior to their arrival, they took fire while still in their
cruisers. One officer was hit in the forearm, another received wounds to his
forehead from a ricochet, another was injured (NFI). The suspect was armed
with a .45 handgun. The officers were armed with Glock 22's (.40S&W) and
SPEER 180 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Points.
Officers fired on the subject and hit him in the left arm, completely
shattering the bone. He was also hit five times in the chest and abdomen.
All rounds penetrated less than 1 (one inch) (B. All of the rounds expanded
fully but did not cause incapacitation due to the lack of penetration.
According to the Medical Examiner, none of the rounds caused any life
threatening injuries. The subject also received one round into the front of
his throat, it penetrated less than 1in (B as well. The Medical Examiner
stated that the recovered rounds were in pristine condition (still had
rifling marks on them).
The subject was wearing a down jacket at the time of the incident. He was
finally taken down after receiving rounds from an M-4 .223, with Hornady Tap
55 gr ballistic tip rounds and Hornady Tap 72 gr. Hollow Points.
The officer with the M-4 was able to shoot underneath a vehicle and hit the
suspect in the ankle. The officer then flanked the subject, who continued to
engage officers, and was eventually killed by the officer with the M-4.
The subject had a trace amount of marijuana in his system.
Range between subject and officers: 20 feet.
Subject had a t-shirt on under his jacket.
Subject received approximately sixteen .223 rounds, thirteen of these rounds
went completely through. One round struck his hip and completely shattered
it. Another .223 round struck his aorta and another pierced and collapsed
his lung. Both of these rounds lodged themselves inside the subject.
The Medical Examiner stated that the .223 rounds caused massive internal
damage.
This is the second shooting that the PD has experienced where they had to
shoot a subject in excess of ten times with .40 S&W ammo to incapacitate or
kill. There was another incident where a subject was shot inside of his
vehicle. He was struck approximately ten times, all the while continuing to
fire at officers. He was eventually killed after suffering a shot to the
back of his head.
In this same incident, the back of the subject's seat was struck multiple
times, the .40 S&W rounds never penetrated through the seat. In this
incident, all shots had passed through either the windshield or rear window.
Investigators assume that this was the reason for the poor ballistic
performance.
(The) PD is now considering replacing their Glock 22's (.40S&W) with Glock
21's (.45ACP). "
There is more NSFW or public.
Hollis - I know the guys at RBCD and I've seen some presentations they've done on the ammo. It does some amazing damage to flesh and tissue. It doesn't perform well in ballistic gel according to Gary Roberts but then I've never tried to kill a block gelatin.
There's a there a thread with some autopsy photos (of hogs) on PS.com.
Plus I think you'll appreciate the fact they're Marines. :)
There's a there a thread with some autopsy photos (of hogs) on PS.com.
Plus I think you'll appreciate the fact they're Marines. :)
HOLLiS
Verified Military
8
8'Duece
Guest
Personally I don't feel undergunned with a 9mm Luger, assuming your are using a higher pressured load such as the Corbon 115 +P (Barnes DPX bullet) It will make a hell of mess of your attacker if shot placement is to the central nervous system or vital organs. Shot placement, shot placement.
But, I prefer .45 ACP any day of the week.
I'm not keen on the .40 Smith, especially when most departments are carrying the 180 grain. To me the .40 has alway's been a bastardization of the 10mm with little in the way of actually outperforming a decent load of 9mm Luger or a .45 ACP.
:2c:
But, I prefer .45 ACP any day of the week.
I'm not keen on the .40 Smith, especially when most departments are carrying the 180 grain. To me the .40 has alway's been a bastardization of the 10mm with little in the way of actually outperforming a decent load of 9mm Luger or a .45 ACP.
:2c:
Well, I think everything's a compromise on some level. My personal choice, what I feel confident and competent with is .40 in semi-auto, but I really trust my .357 revolver (3.1 inch barrel).
pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
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B
Boondocksaint375
Guest
Well, that's with the Speer Gold Dots.....
HOLLiS
Verified Military
No kidding, I woke up yesterday too. I am planning or ordering some RBCD products for personal safety.
I knew 40 was better than 9, but I thought it was much better. I should have kept my 10mm. Oh well, I am picking up another 45 soon.
Before everyone goes knocking off the .40.............
They didn't need a knee jerk reaction and go replace all their weapons, but unfortunately, it's probably already a done deal.
For me? .40 S&W. Wouldn't trade my 22C for anything else.
This department (Above) used a heavier round which instead of increasing stopping power with a .40 round, actually reduced it. The above review just re-confirms it. Problem was not with the .40, nor was it the SPEER ammunition itself, it was the type of round (180 gr) selected for departmental use, probably selected by someone on the city council.
. I use a 135 gr JHP in Winchester or Corbon. Federal in a pinch. I wouldn't go any higher than a 155 JHP. Couple it with a double stack and no one will ever have to say on my behalf "If only he had more"
In .32 for my NAA b/u, Hornaday Proprietary .32 NAA60 gr. 199 ft lbs @1222 fps. Sanow also gave it a thumbs up. Not bad for a small intimidater.
One other knock down plus factor is SHOT PLACEMENT as mentioned above. :2c:
HOLLiS
Verified Military
Before everyone goes knocking off the .40.............
They didn't need a knee jerk reaction and go replace all their weapons, but unfortunately, it's probably already a done deal.
For me? .40 S&W. Wouldn't trade my 22C for anything else.
This department (Above) used a heavier round which instead of increasing stopping power with a .40 round, actually reduced it. The above review just re-confirms it. Problem was not with the .40, nor was it the SPEER ammunition itself, it was the type of round (180 gr) selected for departmental use, probably selected by someone on the city council.
I use a 135 gr JHP in Winchester or Corbon. Federal in a pinch. I wouldn't go any higher than a 155 JHP. Couple it with a double stack and no one will ever have to say on my behalf "If only he had more"
In .32 for my NAA b/u, Hornaday Proprietary .32 NAA60 gr. 199 ft lbs @1222 fps. Sanow also gave it a thumbs up. Not bad for a small intimidater.
One other knock down plus factor is SHOT PLACEMENT as mentioned above. :2c:
That could be. The funny part for me, is that in a way this was all discussed in the 70's. A lot of departments used .38 Specials. There was a reluctance to move to .357 Mag. At that time there was also talk of going to the .41 Mag. Stoned perps on PCP, where almost impossible to bring down with a .38 special and then we had the FBI shoot out, they had 9mm and the perp had a SKS. FBIs lost several agents.
There was also not a very decent selection of auto loaders then. 9mm for all practical purpose is a .38 special. .40 Smith, IMHO, a better choice than a 9mm, not the best choice compared to 10mm, or .45 acp. (there are other calibers in that range too).
I also feel situation for all us can be very different. So generally the needs for a LEO would not be the same as for me as a CCW holder.
To throw a monkey wrench into what I just post and also what you mentioned, Bullet choice has a lot to do with this too.
8
8'Duece
Guest
Before everyone goes knocking off the .40.............
They didn't need a knee jerk reaction and go replace all their weapons, but unfortunately, it's probably already a done deal.
For me? .40 S&W. Wouldn't trade my 22C for anything else.
This department (Above) used a heavier round which instead of increasing stopping power with a .40 round, actually reduced it. The above review just re-confirms it. Problem was not with the .40, nor was it the SPEER ammunition itself, it was the type of round (180 gr) selected for departmental use, probably selected by someone on the city council.
I use a 135 gr JHP in Winchester or Corbon. Federal in a pinch. I wouldn't go any higher than a 155 JHP. Couple it with a double stack and no one will ever have to say on my behalf "If only he had more"
In .32 for my NAA b/u, Hornaday Proprietary .32 NAA60 gr. 199 ft lbs @1222 fps. Sanow also gave it a thumbs up. Not bad for a small intimidater.
One other knock down plus factor is SHOT PLACEMENT as mentioned above. :2c:
Well spoken !!!
What .40 Smiths I do own are stuffed with 135 grain Corbon DPX at the moment.
A
arizonaguide
Guest
Today's SitRep Phoenix AZ:
.45 ammo almost gone from the shelves at the shop, and getting hard to get.
Not surprising.
But, lots of .40sw still available, and fairly easy to get.
That surprised me...I thought the .40 was becoming very popular.
9mm getting harder to get also.
:2c:
.45 ammo almost gone from the shelves at the shop, and getting hard to get.
Not surprising.
But, lots of .40sw still available, and fairly easy to get.
That surprised me...I thought the .40 was becoming very popular.
9mm getting harder to get also.
:2c:
Going a bit further now that this topic has me intrigued, I did a little digging and fished out tables for both .40 and .45.
The muzzle velocity and energy columns within the tables speak for themselves. The closest .45 was the 145 Corbon. I had to do a double take looking at the .40 115 gr Corbon. I put a box on my shopping list for tomorrow. Nothing wrong with the .45, but for me, I'll stick with my .40
The muzzle velocity and energy columns within the tables speak for themselves. The closest .45 was the 145 Corbon. I had to do a double take looking at the .40 115 gr Corbon. I put a box on my shopping list for tomorrow. Nothing wrong with the .45, but for me, I'll stick with my .40
D
dusty
Guest
I went down and got a .40 Smitty M&P compact...today.
Sweet! Dead on @ 7 yards.
Thanks for convincing me. You too, 82nd.
All I could get in JHP were 155 gr. Federals, but it beats roundnose.
I like it so much, I made it my profile picture.
Now my snub goes in my left pocket.:cool:
Sweet! Dead on @ 7 yards.
Thanks for convincing me. You too, 82nd.
All I could get in JHP were 155 gr. Federals, but it beats roundnose.
I like it so much, I made it my profile picture.
Now my snub goes in my left pocket.:cool:
I've heard nothing but good feedback on the SW M&P compact line. I had a looksy at yours. Nice shooter Dusty.
