Gun stuff

[HOLLiS]

You've got all the neat shit, will you sell it to me so I can have a "full bag of clubs?" :cool:

Hey, I went through the ZEC that my son teaches, Sorry Bro. This is also a big reason why we have not been attacked by Zombies.

 

[doorkicker]

I am pretty knowledgable, but I have immense respect for the opinions on this board. With that said, what are your feelings on the following firearms (pieces I plan on picking up over the next few months - gotta love TDY money):

Kimber Desert Warrior

LWRC M6A2

LMT piston carbine

M1A SOCOM 16

(I'll get ONE of the rifles, but any of them sound good)

I plan on EO-Teching the rifle and not much else. If I get the M1A, I might put that new Schmidt und Bender on it...

Kimber is good to go, but I'd recommend just getting a Custom TLE II vs the Desert Warrior...paying a whole lot for a rail you have to ask yourself if you really need...and you can refinish a TLE in FDE if you wanted to.

Bottom SBR is a LWRC M6A2 and it runs like a champ and is pretty managable per cleaning when shooting suppressed.

For the most part all of the other M4s are LMT, but direct impingement not piston. Only reason I'd recommend LWRC vs. LMTs piston....is because 12.5" is the shortest length that LMT makes their piston guns...I like 10.5's

Nothing wrong with the M1A SOCOM...but I'd pick up an AR10 instead.

I plan on EO-Teching the rifle and not much else.

Better plan on getting some BUISs for whatever blaster you end up getting...all things battery operated do go tits up at the most inoportune times. :doh:

 

[AssadUSMC]

For the most part all of the other M4s are LMT, but direct impingement not piston. Only reason I'd recommend LWRC vs. LMTs piston....is because 12.5" is the shortest length that LMT makes their piston guns...I like 10.5's

I don't want to register an SBR, so a 14.7 LWRC is as short as I'll go. We get 10" 416s at work, but I don't get to bring those home.

Nothing wrong with the M1A SOCOM...but I'd pick up an AR10 instead.

My partiality to the M14 platform is just because I like the way they handle and shoot. I've fired SR-25s and I like them, too. Obviously, the AR-type ergonomics are embedded in my muscle memory. Kill or drill, baby.

Better plan on getting some BUISs for whatever blaster you end up getting...all things battery operated do go tits up at the most inoportune times. :doh:

For sure. I always carry spare lithiums for my EO-Tech and Surefire (makes it convenient and they aren't fiddly like the CR223s). BUIS is a must on any optics gun IMO.

The guns I'm looking at are for personal use, random plinking, etc. I'm not a subscriber to the "govt is coming for you/zombies/SHTF" theories. I want them for a mix of "have my own" and "like gun porn".

I appreciate the input!!

 

[HOLLiS]

I'm not a subscriber to the "zombies" theories. I want them for a mix of "have my own" and "like gun porn".

I appreciate the input!!

I hate to break this to you, your the one the Zombies will get first.

I like gun porn too.

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

Own a desert warrior, good gun but a bit heavy for my taste (and several others Marines I work with also commented on this). Planning on switching over to either a glock 21 or sig p220. Own and love my M4 with a eotech and railing....would love to get a SA58OSW....anyone have any experience with this one?

~JohnnyBoy

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

DoorKicker is spot on with the TLE II and the AR10. As for AR uppers, it really depends on how much you are going to use it. If you are talking 200 rounds a weekend I would just go with direct impingement, if you are going to be shooting 500+ rounds a week then get a piston upper from who ever. LWRC also has the piston kits I believe?

SBR is anything under 16 inches, so why would you go 14.7?

I am a M14 guy, not big on the shorty's. I would go with the NM from Springfield, matched up with some 175gr Match ammo you are killing shit at 1000 yards ;)

 

[koz]

Well, I can't argue with those numbers, but then again I'm just thinking from the Old School of barrel length and old ammunition.

I forget what kind of barrel is in the LaRue OSR but it's one of the best and I've heard great things about their new release of this particular rifle. I wouldn't mind having one when they finally start shipping them.

Everything else I can see we agree on. Thanks for the head split on the numbers. :doh: I like the Mk262 ammunition for my Les Baer AR but getting a supply of it is like waiting for a virgin to want to lay me at this old age. :cool:

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not a high speed long range guy.


ETA: Are those number at the muzzle or the target distances that you mentioned with the LaRue OSR ???

The 16" barrel at the muzzle is 2500fps with energy of 2331 ft-lbs.

I felt the same way about anything under 18" until I saw the numbers from the chrono and the ballistic calc...

 

[doorkicker]

As for AR uppers, it really depends on how much you are going to use it. If you are talking 200 rounds a weekend I would just go with direct impingement, if you are going to be shooting 500+ rounds a week then get a piston upper from who ever

I think it really depends on its intended use, if you are shooting suppressed it's a no brainer get a piston...otherwise you're probably fine with a DI gas-gun. If you are concerned with major carbon build-up/etc. I highly recommend getting a chrome BCG...they are incredible when clean-up time rolls around

. LWRC also has the piston kits I believe?

LWRC, PWS, ARIES and a few others offer kits.

SBR is anything under 16 inches, so why would you go 14.7?

Buy a 14.7" upper and perm. affix whatever FH and you skate just over 16" making it legal since the FH essentially becomes part of the barrel (according to BATF/NFA anyways). All of the LMTs in my pic are 14.5" uppers with perm. attached SDS "birdcage FH'drs equaling 16.1":cool:

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think it really depends on its intended use, if you are shooting suppressed it's a no brainer get a piston...otherwise you're probably fine with a DI gas-gun. If you are concerned with major carbon build-up/etc. I highly recommend getting a chrome BCG...they are incredible when clean-up time rolls around

Well you now how I feel about suppressers

When I am looking for long hall, meaning round count before re barreling. I will go gas impingement b/c the less pitting and wear on the gas port. When I want high round count before functioning is diminished I want a piston upper b/c I gas is not be blown back into my bolt.

Personally I prefer gas impingement over pistons for something such as an SDMR or mid range platform. However if it’s going to be a room broom that will get treated like the whore it is, I will want the gas piston over the gas impingement.

 

[CBTech]

Buy a 14.7" upper and perm. affix whatever FH and you skate just over 16" making it legal since the FH essentially becomes part of the barrel (according to BATF/NFA anyways). All of the LMTs in my pic are 14.5" uppers with perm. attached SDS "birdcage FH'drs equaling 16.1":cool:

Make sure you have the gas block you want on there first. I would go with a gas block with a picatinny at least on top for BUIS over the A2 fs in case you ever wanted to use optics that didn't co-witness.

BTW, anyone know where I could start on getting an SBR? I don't mind registering it because they know you have it anyway if you got a background done. They don't throw your info away. The question is if they would have the balls to go to your house and try to take your shit. I plan on getting a Surefire supressor and SBR. Both warrant a registration. I need info on where you pay the $209 tax? I am assuming it is to the mfg of suppressor or SBR?
Also, where do you get the fingerprint cards? Any LE office or agency?

Please PM me if you have a link to a form.

 

[WillBrink]

Kimber is good to go, but I'd recommend just getting a Custom TLE II vs the Desert Warrior...paying a whole lot for a rail you have to ask yourself if you really need...and you can refinish a TLE in FDE if you wanted to.

If interested, here's what Hilton Yam has to say on the TLE II:

"Given their designation suffix of "II", it would indicate that they have the Series II firing pin safety. Being very familiar with a batch of kimbers made especially for a large metropolitan SWAT team, I can say that no extra effort is made to "beef up" anything for duty use. These guns all had loose plunger tubes, loose sights, improperly cut feed ramps, and a host of other issues that made them more like "Kit, 1911 Parts - Some Assembly Required" and far from heavy duty. "

From the 10-8 forums:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthread...661&Words=kimber&topic=&Search=true#Post80170

 

[pardus]

...would love to get a SA58OSW....anyone have any experience with this one?

~JohnnyBoy

Ive used and own the original, full length rifles, they are second to none!

Excellent rifles!

From what I hear DSA makes a better rifle than FN did :2c:

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSW

Buy a 14.7" upper and perm. affix whatever FH and you skate just over 16" making it legal since the FH essentially becomes part of the barrel (according to BATF/NFA anyways). All of the LMTs in my pic are 14.5" uppers with perm. attached SDS "birdcage FH'drs equaling 16.1":cool:

Can someone explain the math to me?
Makes zero sense at all to me!

Get a shorter, ballisticly inferior barrel and add some shit on the end to make it the same length as a superior barrel? :uhh:
Why not just get the 16" in the first place? :confused:

 

[HOLLiS]

Can someone explain the math to me?
Makes zero sense at all to me!

Get a shorter, ballisticly inferior barrel and add some shit on the end to make it the same length as a superior barrel? :uhh:
Why not just get the 16" in the first place? :confused:

For a Non-NFA SBR length is 16 inch. It can be a combination of lengths, so to speak. Example a 14.5" barrel + 1.5"Flash hider = 16 inch. The key, is that the FH has to be permanently attached. If the FH is removable then the Barrel length is 14.5 and falls under NFA.

Any barrel extender can be used, a false suppressor, false muzzle, etc, again the trick it, it has to be permanently attached, so that combine length is over 16 inches.


Side note for CQC, ballistics difference in 14.5 - 20 is really not a issue. My Shorty is a 7.5 inch barrel.........

 

[pardus]

For a Non-NFA SBR length is 16 inch. It can be a combination of lengths, so to speak. Example a 14.5" barrel + 1.5"Flash hider = 16 inch. The key, is that the FH has to be permanently attached. If the FH is removable then the Barrel length is 14.5 and falls under NFA.

Any barrel extender can be used, a false suppressor, false muzzle, etc, again the trick it, it has to be permanently attached, so that combine length is over 16 inches.

I understand the laws just not the application.

If you have to have a 16" 'barrel' why not use the 16" as a barrel instead of a 14" (for arguments sake) barrel and 2" of window dressing?

Side note for CQC, ballistics difference in 14.5 - 20 is really not a issue. My Shorty is a 7.5 inch barrel.........

Really? It was my understanding there is a huge difference in ballistics/velocity between a 14.5 and a 20" barrel (in an AR platform), resulting in significant reduction in terminal ballistics for the 5.56. :confused:

 

[HOLLiS]

I understand the laws just not the application.

If you have to have a 16" 'barrel' why not use the 16" as a barrel instead of a 14" (for arguments sake) barrel and 2" of window dressing?



Really? It was my understanding there is a huge difference in ballistics/velocity between a 14.5 and a 20" barrel (in an AR platform), resulting in significant reduction in terminal ballistics for the 5.56. :confused:

On ballistics, I think it is a range issue. Longer range, longer barrel. When looking at barrel lengths, look at retained muzzle energy. As long as you don't exceed the range where retained muzzle energy is insufficient, then it is all moot.

Also some of the teams use sound suppressors, so your 16 in barrel now sticks out there to 22 inches. Everything is a trade off of pros and cons. Welding a long firearm in close quarters can add to the excitement.

Also look at pistols and their barrel lengths.

I never crony-ed my 7.5, I should do that. I think of it as more a pistol than long range shooter.

I think it gets back to what the firearm will be used for. A SBR, as long as it is operated in the range that it is effective is GTG. Also shorter rifles are used where space is cramp for storage, like personal weapons for a tanker. Rifles, for most people are easier to use effectively than pistols. So a Collapsible stock SBR does have a use.


For civilian consumption........... IMHO, it is all for S&G.

 

[doorkicker]

1. BTW, anyone know where I could start on getting an SBR?
2. The question is if they would have the balls to go to your house and try to take your shit.
3. I plan on getting a Surefire supressor and SBR. Both warrant a registration.
4. I need info on where you pay the $209 tax? I am assuming it is to the mfg of suppressor or SBR?
5. Also, where do you get the fingerprint cards? Any LE office or agency?

Please PM me if you have a link to a form.

1. First you need to check your State laws and make sure that SBRs are legal.
- Then you need to find out if your CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) will even sign off on Form 1 (a lot don't).
- If the CLEO will not sign off, then you can form an LLC or a Trust.
2. Yes, see "Ruby Ridge" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
3. SBR paperwork is a Form 1...Suppressor paperwork is a Form 4. You would do your own Form 1, your dealer should do your Form 4
- Why a Surefire can...their are plenty of better cans out there that are cheaper.
4. No, the $200 tax stamp is payable to NFA (National Firearms Act) branch of the BATF...you can find the payment info for the stamp on the top right hand corner of the Form 1/4. You are paying the Fed.Gov a $200 tax, not the Manufacturer.
5. Your local PD, if you live in a modern city get digital prints done...their is less likelyhood of them being rejected as unreadable and they cost around $10 bucks.

*This site has all the forms you will need: http://titleii.com/TitleII.com/Forms.html

Form 1 is easy to complete and looks like this:

 

[doorkicker]

If interested, here's what Hilton Yam has to say on the TLE II:

"Given their designation suffix of "II", it would indicate that they have the Series II firing pin safety. Being very familiar with a batch of kimbers made especially for a large metropolitan SWAT team, I can say that no extra effort is made to "beef up" anything for duty use. These guns all had loose plunger tubes, loose sights, improperly cut feed ramps, and a host of other issues that made them more like "Kit, 1911 Parts - Some Assembly Required" and far from heavy duty. "

From the 10-8 forums:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthread...661&Words=kimber&topic=&Search=true#Post80170

Interesting read, yet doesn't LAPD continue to use the TLE II? I've had 2 of them without ever experiencing a failure...maybe I'm lucky?

Can someone explain the math to me?
Makes zero sense at all to me!

Get a shorter, ballisticly inferior barrel and add some shit on the end to make it the same length as a superior barrel? :uhh:
Why not just get the 16" in the first place? :confused:

Some people like to keep their M4'geries as close to spec as possible.
My $0.02

 

[pardus]

On ballistics, I think it is a range issue. Longer range, longer barrel. When looking at barrel lengths, look at retained muzzle energy. As long as you don't exceed the range where retained muzzle energy is insufficient, then it is all moot.

It's my understanding that with the 14.5" barrel the 5.56 doesn't achieve the high velocity that it was designed to achieve and therefore the bullet on impact doesn't perform as it was designed to perform thereby reducing it's effectiveness.

Also some of the teams use sound suppressors, so your 16 in barrel now sticks out there to 22 inches. Everything is a trade off of pros and cons. Welding a long firearm in close quarters can add to the excitement.

Also look at pistols and their barrel lengths.

I never crony-ed my 7.5, I should do that. I think of it as more a pistol than long range shooter.

I think it gets back to what the firearm will be used for. A SBR, as long as it is operated in the range that it is effective is GTG. Also shorter rifles are used where space is cramp for storage, like personal weapons for a tanker. Rifles, for most people are easier to use effectively than pistols. So a Collapsible stock SBR does have a use.


For civilian consumption........... IMHO, it is all for S&G.

Absolutely agree r.e. the suppresor.

I Still think it's silly to falsely lengthen the barrel for zero gain but that just my opinion. I don't like short barrels anyway. :2c:

If it's a solely CQB weapon then short barrel is obviously the way to go.

 

[doorkicker]

If you are really looking for accuracy (1moa and better) from an M16 family platform...I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution than the 18" barreled MK12 MOD 0/1...even suppressed it's length is unobtrussive.

 

[HOLLiS]

If you are really looking for accuracy (1moa and better) from an M16 family platform...I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution than the 18" barreled MK12 MOD 0/1...even suppressed it's length is unobtrussive.

That is a nice looking AR.